E10+Water=Bad Gas
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Tourer
Joined: Dec 2007
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E10+Water=Bad Gas
I was reading another thread on gas and didn't want to hijack.
My friend and I stopped for gas after Delmarva Bike week just before we hit the bay bridge. Within a few miles both our bikes started to run like crap. I mean almost at the exact same time.
Earlier this summer while in Gettysburg Bike week a similar situation happened after stopping for gas in Breezewood.
Each time the problem was solved after burning most of the fuel in the tank then refilling with gas from a local station where I have never had a problem.
My first thoughts were that these stations were possibly selling 87 octane but labeling it and charging 93 octane prices. However i just googled E10 in VA and came across the following info. Apparently E10 mixed with water lowers the octane levels and makes vehicles run poorly.
I guess this clears up a lot of questions on why I seem to run into issues with bad gas more frequently these days.
************************************************** ***
Ethanol Fuel Comes to Virginia
Underground and Aboveground Storage Tank Owners and Operators:
In the next few weeks (mid-March to mid-May 2006) many reformulated gasoline (RFG) marketers in Virginia will be supplied gasoline containing 10% ethanol (E10) to replace the use of methyl tertiary-butyl ether (MtBE). Ethanol may pose potential problems for your storage tank systems and your customers’ vehicles so contact your fuel supplier to determine their fuel conversion plans and to obtain suggestions on how to prepare your tank systems.
Any ethanol blended fuel or (E10) will necessitate use of different fuel (dispenser) filters and require you to be diligent about preventing any water in your tanks. The ethanol will add necessary octane to the fuel, but any water in the tank may mix with the ethanol and lower the octane or make vehicles run unacceptably.
For more info:
http://www.deq.virginia.gov/export/s.../pdf/kwoss.pdf
My friend and I stopped for gas after Delmarva Bike week just before we hit the bay bridge. Within a few miles both our bikes started to run like crap. I mean almost at the exact same time.
Earlier this summer while in Gettysburg Bike week a similar situation happened after stopping for gas in Breezewood.
Each time the problem was solved after burning most of the fuel in the tank then refilling with gas from a local station where I have never had a problem.
My first thoughts were that these stations were possibly selling 87 octane but labeling it and charging 93 octane prices. However i just googled E10 in VA and came across the following info. Apparently E10 mixed with water lowers the octane levels and makes vehicles run poorly.
I guess this clears up a lot of questions on why I seem to run into issues with bad gas more frequently these days.
************************************************** ***
Ethanol Fuel Comes to Virginia
Underground and Aboveground Storage Tank Owners and Operators:
In the next few weeks (mid-March to mid-May 2006) many reformulated gasoline (RFG) marketers in Virginia will be supplied gasoline containing 10% ethanol (E10) to replace the use of methyl tertiary-butyl ether (MtBE). Ethanol may pose potential problems for your storage tank systems and your customers’ vehicles so contact your fuel supplier to determine their fuel conversion plans and to obtain suggestions on how to prepare your tank systems.
Any ethanol blended fuel or (E10) will necessitate use of different fuel (dispenser) filters and require you to be diligent about preventing any water in your tanks. The ethanol will add necessary octane to the fuel, but any water in the tank may mix with the ethanol and lower the octane or make vehicles run unacceptably.
For more info:
http://www.deq.virginia.gov/export/s.../pdf/kwoss.pdf
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,642
Likes: 6
From: Forest Lake, Mn
IF you've ever lived in a sub-zero climate, you undoubtedly have used HEET along the way for gas line freeze. VOILA !!! Alcohol!!!! There's also ISO-HEET, for removing the watta, B4 it freezes in your gas line.
DD is correct, it attracts and absorbs watta.
I'm jus' not sure, how much water you'd have to actually absorb, to lower the octane, significantly enough, to cause probs.
My guess ??? A LOT !!!
BUT I'm REAL sure, I aint gonna lose any sleep over the #.
We've had ethanol gas up here since the early 80's. And EVERYTHING I own or have owned since then, is STILL running jus' fine, THANK YOU.
DD is correct, it attracts and absorbs watta.
I'm jus' not sure, how much water you'd have to actually absorb, to lower the octane, significantly enough, to cause probs.
My guess ??? A LOT !!!
BUT I'm REAL sure, I aint gonna lose any sleep over the #.
We've had ethanol gas up here since the early 80's. And EVERYTHING I own or have owned since then, is STILL running jus' fine, THANK YOU.
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,942
Likes: 7
From: guntersville, al
several of us at friday night hot rod cruise-in were talking about the effect of ethanol in carburated engines. I have a new holley on my 23T. if i am forced to use ethanol gasoline (dryer than pure gasoline) i have problems with needles sticking causing flooding. two other owners confirmed same problems. what we have been doing that is effective is to add synthetic two cycle oil to the gas. the synthetic doesn't smoke and lubricates the needles.
I doubt that it is just Ethanol fuels that have problems when mixed with water, I will go out on a limb here and say if you had the same amount of water in the old fuel it would do the same thing....I dunno could be wrong, was once before.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,334
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Alcohol attracts water and thus causes it to separate from gasoline.
With alcohol being a much higher octane than the gas mixed with it, now what have you got?
I try to buy gas at busy newer stations, most of the times you win once in a blue moon you lose.
Alcohol is a great cleaner, it'll probably clean out all the crud,rust ect. in those old gas station tanks I'm sure.
Its best to stay clear of old stations ( old tanks) in my opinion.
Like Gump said I aint losing any sleep over it.
We've been running off this mix for decades here in the corn belt.
With alcohol being a much higher octane than the gas mixed with it, now what have you got?
I try to buy gas at busy newer stations, most of the times you win once in a blue moon you lose.
Alcohol is a great cleaner, it'll probably clean out all the crud,rust ect. in those old gas station tanks I'm sure.
Its best to stay clear of old stations ( old tanks) in my opinion.
Like Gump said I aint losing any sleep over it.
We've been running off this mix for decades here in the corn belt.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 15,788
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From: along the shore of Mishigami
Water in non-ethanol gasoline will settle to the lowest point of a container. If you have ever pulled a fuel sample in a glass jar, swirl it, you can can see little ***** of water at the bottom of the jar. The problems with ethanol with gas came to light in the 70's when gasahol showed up, some problems just don't go away they just are rebranded.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,208
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From: Central Illinois, Between I-80 and I-74
Yes ethanol absorbs water, also disolves more crap from inside the tanks.
It's been around here since the 70s. Don't hear of many issue now but this was common for the first few years after the ethanol was introduced.
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