The sky is falling !!! (rant)
Road Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 754
Likes: 1
From:
RE: The sky is falling !!! (rant)
what bugs me about the way HD handled it is the fact that they seem to be trying to sneak it in. They made big changes in the dyna lineup in 06. All their dyna ads talk about 6 speed, larger forks, new frame, bigger tire, etc. NEVER do you read anything in the HD propaganda regarding the emissions issues or the reason they're getting rid of the carb models and moving to a closed loop system.
Same thing for 07 with the softail. They make big changes in the lineup and then sneak in the closed loop system without advertising it anywhere. Why is this? If it's truly a better system why do they hide it behind other changes.
I also think they introduced it in separate years so that not everyone is pissed at the same time.
If someone can find an ad showing some of these changes I'd like to see it.
It would also be nice if they'd clue in the dealers before making these changes. It seems the dealers are the least informed of anyone when it comes to the new models. to what is going on
My guess the next change will be a liquid cooled dyna, then dresser and then finally softail.
I hope i'm wrong, but I'm sure glad there are a ton of older HD's on ebay with next to no miles. (thank a rub) That's where all my bikes will come from in the future instead of the dealership.
Same thing for 07 with the softail. They make big changes in the lineup and then sneak in the closed loop system without advertising it anywhere. Why is this? If it's truly a better system why do they hide it behind other changes.
I also think they introduced it in separate years so that not everyone is pissed at the same time.
If someone can find an ad showing some of these changes I'd like to see it.
It would also be nice if they'd clue in the dealers before making these changes. It seems the dealers are the least informed of anyone when it comes to the new models. to what is going on
My guess the next change will be a liquid cooled dyna, then dresser and then finally softail.
I hope i'm wrong, but I'm sure glad there are a ton of older HD's on ebay with next to no miles. (thank a rub) That's where all my bikes will come from in the future instead of the dealership.
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
From:
RE: The sky is falling !!! (rant)
This is an interesting discussion. I like the "HD caved in" type comments, as well as the idea that the company is 'sneaking in' the EFI, etc.
First, the company did not 'cave in' to the EPA. The EPA dictates what privately owned companies (car, bike) can build and sell in this country. There is no discussion, there are no negotiations. Either a company complies, or they do not sell products.
Second, EFI is far superior to carbs as far as metering a precise amount of fuel to an engine. Yes, this makes them (gasp!) economical and efficient. Strangely, when an engine runs more efficiently it (gasp again!) makes more power! But, who the heck would want that? Look around at modern cars. We have Z06 Corvettes making 500 horsepower, pickups that do 12 second quarter miles, and they do it while attaining very respectable fuel mileage! Back in the '80s, everyone KNEW the musclecar era was long gone.
Modifications, you ask? Again, look at cars. You can bolt a supercharger to your Chevy truck and get 400+ hp from a 5.3 liter engine- and pass emissions!
Now, I am NOT a fan of electronics in vehicles, nor do I want government dictating anything to anybody, but this whole deal with all the hand-wringing over the EPA rules is a bunch of hooey. My local HD dealer has a bunch of SEII mufflers in stock, and is going to sell me a pair as soon as I can afford them- and I'm in freakin' Kalifornia! The ONLY thing that will have ANY effect on private owners of motorcycles is if we let the asshats in government drag bikes into the smog-check programs. THEN you will have to worry about which aftermarket parts are on your bike. For now, hot rod the hell out of 'em, but keep your stock mufflers and air cleaners on a shelf, in case you let the flaming liberal tree huggers have their way.
Sorry to go on, but this has been driving me nuts for a while now. Remember, WE (the People) still run things in this country- until WE give it away.
First, the company did not 'cave in' to the EPA. The EPA dictates what privately owned companies (car, bike) can build and sell in this country. There is no discussion, there are no negotiations. Either a company complies, or they do not sell products.
Second, EFI is far superior to carbs as far as metering a precise amount of fuel to an engine. Yes, this makes them (gasp!) economical and efficient. Strangely, when an engine runs more efficiently it (gasp again!) makes more power! But, who the heck would want that? Look around at modern cars. We have Z06 Corvettes making 500 horsepower, pickups that do 12 second quarter miles, and they do it while attaining very respectable fuel mileage! Back in the '80s, everyone KNEW the musclecar era was long gone.
Modifications, you ask? Again, look at cars. You can bolt a supercharger to your Chevy truck and get 400+ hp from a 5.3 liter engine- and pass emissions!
Now, I am NOT a fan of electronics in vehicles, nor do I want government dictating anything to anybody, but this whole deal with all the hand-wringing over the EPA rules is a bunch of hooey. My local HD dealer has a bunch of SEII mufflers in stock, and is going to sell me a pair as soon as I can afford them- and I'm in freakin' Kalifornia! The ONLY thing that will have ANY effect on private owners of motorcycles is if we let the asshats in government drag bikes into the smog-check programs. THEN you will have to worry about which aftermarket parts are on your bike. For now, hot rod the hell out of 'em, but keep your stock mufflers and air cleaners on a shelf, in case you let the flaming liberal tree huggers have their way.
Sorry to go on, but this has been driving me nuts for a while now. Remember, WE (the People) still run things in this country- until WE give it away.
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 644
Likes: 1
From:
RE: The sky is falling !!! (rant)
Bingo! You are right!
Harley has revenue of over 1 billion per year and is making a great profit! It is now a big target to the EPA for fines! Thats how they finance their operation and make themselves look efficient. Harley cannot afford to be picked out of the crowd and fined five years profits.
The SEII mufflers say right on them, "not for on road use". Its engraved on the Muffler! Thats a big violation right there because the dealer is doing the selling and the install. Harley Dealers are going to get their butts sued off soon for simply doing any modifications to any bike that affects the air/fuel ratio. So unless all the aftermarket stuff is EPA approved and certified then Harley dealers will be out of the aftermarket business soon. You have reason to worry!
The next step will be them going after the aftermarket folks who sell and install the parts that change the EPA mandated fuel/air emissins ratios.
They go after folks big time who attempt to mess with controls on autos, and they won that battle a long time ago. So now they are after trucks, bikes, boats, off road vehicles, etc. They get bigger and more powerfull and need to keep busy, thats how it works.
The only way to slow it or stop it is fight them like the NRA fights for our 2nd amendment rights! Maybe we can get an exception if we all raise enough cain about it with our elected officials. That is what the aftermarket folks have been doing for some time now.
I don't want to rain on your parade but if you don't keep up the battle you lose your rights. Similar to "gun control" in England, Australia, Canada, and on and on.
Harley has revenue of over 1 billion per year and is making a great profit! It is now a big target to the EPA for fines! Thats how they finance their operation and make themselves look efficient. Harley cannot afford to be picked out of the crowd and fined five years profits.
The SEII mufflers say right on them, "not for on road use". Its engraved on the Muffler! Thats a big violation right there because the dealer is doing the selling and the install. Harley Dealers are going to get their butts sued off soon for simply doing any modifications to any bike that affects the air/fuel ratio. So unless all the aftermarket stuff is EPA approved and certified then Harley dealers will be out of the aftermarket business soon. You have reason to worry!
The next step will be them going after the aftermarket folks who sell and install the parts that change the EPA mandated fuel/air emissins ratios.
They go after folks big time who attempt to mess with controls on autos, and they won that battle a long time ago. So now they are after trucks, bikes, boats, off road vehicles, etc. They get bigger and more powerfull and need to keep busy, thats how it works.
The only way to slow it or stop it is fight them like the NRA fights for our 2nd amendment rights! Maybe we can get an exception if we all raise enough cain about it with our elected officials. That is what the aftermarket folks have been doing for some time now.
I don't want to rain on your parade but if you don't keep up the battle you lose your rights. Similar to "gun control" in England, Australia, Canada, and on and on.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,081
Likes: 4
From: Phoenix, Arizona
RE: The sky is falling !!! (rant)
ORIGINAL: Motor Squad
Since joining HDForums this is my first year <SNIP>
It reminds me of Y2K when everyone was talking about computers crashing and the world coming to an end. Low and behold the year rolled over and....(hold your breath).... nothing earth shattering happened. <More Snippage>
Since joining HDForums this is my first year <SNIP>
It reminds me of Y2K when everyone was talking about computers crashing and the world coming to an end. Low and behold the year rolled over and....(hold your breath).... nothing earth shattering happened. <More Snippage>
As to your nothing happened comment. That is because a lot of IT people worked their butts off in 98-99 (or even before that) to make that nothing happen. 1999 was a very tough year and it didn't stop at midnight on Jan 1 2000. There was follow up, meetings out the wazoo and a little fall out that happened on a few systems that were hidden but used. (Someone had a small server in his office that was used for a single program. The program turned out to be not Y2K complaint.)
All in all the Media blew the Y2K Bug way out of proportion (Massive power loss and ATM's spewing money :RollEyes
, but it could have caused some problems. Just not what was reported by the media.
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
From: Roswell, Ga
RE: The sky is falling !!! (rant)
OK I'm not making fum but did anyone else notice above that one guy is in the propare business and the guy that followed him is Bobby Hill.
Anyone watch King of the Hill
Anyone watch King of the Hill
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,513
Likes: 4
From: Midland, TX
RE: The sky is falling !!! (rant)
Well, I remember when Detroit started putting those smog devices on cars back in the late 60's. Most everyone took them off. Then, they came out with unleaded gasoline and catalytic converts. Knew some folks that cut out the fill nozzle on the gas tank so they could run leaded gas and put a "test tube" where the catalytic converter was. Point being, after a while, you just accepted it and didn't fool with the crap. Bikes are the same.... it's all in the name of progress and saving our environment.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
From:
RE: The sky is falling !!! (rant)
ORIGINAL: haksaw
what bugs me about the way HD handled it is the fact that they seem to be trying to sneak it in. They made big changes in the dyna lineup in 06. All their dyna ads talk about 6 speed, larger forks, new frame, bigger tire, etc. NEVER do you read anything in the HD propaganda regarding the emissions issues or the reason they're getting rid of the carb models and moving to a closed loop system.
Same thing for 07 with the softail. They make big changes in the lineup and then sneak in the closed loop system without advertising it anywhere. Why is this? If it's truly a better system why do they hide it behind other changes.
I also think they introduced it in separate years so that not everyone is pissed at the same time.
If someone can find an ad showing some of these changes I'd like to see it.
It would also be nice if they'd clue in the dealers before making these changes. It seems the dealers are the least informed of anyone when it comes to the new models. to what is going on
My guess the next change will be a liquid cooled dyna, then dresser and then finally softail.
I hope i'm wrong, but I'm sure glad there are a ton of older HD's on ebay with next to no miles. (thank a rub) That's where all my bikes will come from in the future instead of the dealership.
what bugs me about the way HD handled it is the fact that they seem to be trying to sneak it in. They made big changes in the dyna lineup in 06. All their dyna ads talk about 6 speed, larger forks, new frame, bigger tire, etc. NEVER do you read anything in the HD propaganda regarding the emissions issues or the reason they're getting rid of the carb models and moving to a closed loop system.
Same thing for 07 with the softail. They make big changes in the lineup and then sneak in the closed loop system without advertising it anywhere. Why is this? If it's truly a better system why do they hide it behind other changes.
I also think they introduced it in separate years so that not everyone is pissed at the same time.
If someone can find an ad showing some of these changes I'd like to see it.
It would also be nice if they'd clue in the dealers before making these changes. It seems the dealers are the least informed of anyone when it comes to the new models. to what is going on
My guess the next change will be a liquid cooled dyna, then dresser and then finally softail.
I hope i'm wrong, but I'm sure glad there are a ton of older HD's on ebay with next to no miles. (thank a rub) That's where all my bikes will come from in the future instead of the dealership.
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Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
From:
RE: The sky is falling !!! (rant)
ORIGINAL: Landfill_Tim
OK I'm not making fum but did anyone else notice above that one guy is in the propare business and the guy that followed him is Bobby Hill.
Anyone watch King of the Hill
OK I'm not making fum but did anyone else notice above that one guy is in the propare business and the guy that followed him is Bobby Hill.
Anyone watch King of the Hill
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,751
Likes: 1
From: USA
RE: The sky is falling !!! (rant)
NEVER do you read anything in the HD propaganda regarding the emissions issues or the reason they're getting rid of the carb models and moving to a closed loop system....
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