Kinda failed MSF course - need help
Sounds like you had a good Instructor and since he was a) there, and b) trained to Instruct new riders...I strongly suggest you focus on what he said about your performance and avoid confusing the matter by asking other's what they think. I include yours truly in this, even as an MSF/RidersEdge Instructor myself.
So, despite all that I'm getting ready to type
, my best advice is to resist the temptation to seek out and listen to the advice of strangers...well-meaning as we all may be.
Not only will you get over-loaded...you may get advice that is not "good".
I see you're still reading...so I'll throw in some thoughts I had when I read your post...
1) HEAT - The heat can be and often is a big issue for many. 104F is ROUGH! Esp on the range in jeans/boots/ls shirt/gloves and helmet. Despite attempts to drink plenty of water, it really is next to impossible to get in enough while out on the range in the types of temps you encountered. I'm in Texas and am pretty much well-versed in HEAT.
Dehydration causes fatigue which affects your focus and motor-skills. I've witnessed students "skills" plummet as the day wears on and one particular class that comes to mind (107F), I am confident the heat caused a couple of people to "fail" due to above reasons.
2) Ride Like a Pro DVD - Sorry fellas...gotta go against the grain in this situation. Despite what the many well-meaning bikers here may feel...the "Ride Like a Pro" DVD (FWIW, I'm a "fan" and have watched the videos and practiced the exercises numerous times AND took the class) is fantastic, but not for novices. Yes...it may be chock full of great info, but IMHO, it's just too advanced for the beginner/novice so I wouldn't recommend it until you have a better command of the basic controls. Personally, I feel keeping it simple (think MSF Beginner's class) is what is I would recommend it to you at this point. This is just my opinion, mind you...again, the RLAP course/DVD is excellent, but not so much for the beginner. This is my opinion and comes from going through both the MSF and Rider's Edge Instructor Training and having a better understanding about the why's and where-for's of the MSF curriculum and adult learning.
3) The Friction Zone - the big kahuna! This is what really jumped out at me...bottom line is, you need to have command of the friction zone to succeed in the MSF class. It's pretty much the foundation and all the other exercises are built on it. More often than not...students who don't get a command of it, often are the one's dropping the bikes and/or don't pass the class. There is a reason why it's taught/practiced from exercise 2 on (ex 1 is bike familiarization...no riding). It's super important. Once you "get it", your whole class experience will change.
4) Front braking - not gonna harp here, but this is a big one as I know you know. As important as it is...the FZ is more important to master as a learning block.
So, get that friction zone thing down then work on what your other hand and feet are doing. I think you'll find that you'll improve on this with time/practice/experience anyway (hopefully, not after kissing the pavement as a result of front-braking in a curve) and in time, braking and shifting becomes 2nd nature.
Bottom line...my suggestion is to re-take the class when the weather is more tolerable. I have a feeling you'll sail through with flying colors. It's not uncommon for 2nd timers to be among the "best" riders in the class. Since you're not "scared" away and are eager to get back on the horse, I would guess you are not in the category of those who simply find out motorcycles are not for them, but rather one who, for whatever reason (test anxiety, learning style/pace, heat, mind elsewhere due to other life events, etc) just didn't get it done in one very fast-paced weekend...no harm no foul!!!
Good luck and come back and let us know when you pass!!
p.s...not sure I am on board with the "practice" advice simply because the mc you may use may be too big/powerful/$$ for a learner on top of how you'd get it to a parking lot safely/legally and who would be giving you advice...keep in mind, crash statistics do not favor those taught by a friend/family member. Not saying not to practice...just not real sure about this w/o more info....
So, despite all that I'm getting ready to type
, my best advice is to resist the temptation to seek out and listen to the advice of strangers...well-meaning as we all may be. I see you're still reading...so I'll throw in some thoughts I had when I read your post...
1) HEAT - The heat can be and often is a big issue for many. 104F is ROUGH! Esp on the range in jeans/boots/ls shirt/gloves and helmet. Despite attempts to drink plenty of water, it really is next to impossible to get in enough while out on the range in the types of temps you encountered. I'm in Texas and am pretty much well-versed in HEAT.
Dehydration causes fatigue which affects your focus and motor-skills. I've witnessed students "skills" plummet as the day wears on and one particular class that comes to mind (107F), I am confident the heat caused a couple of people to "fail" due to above reasons.
2) Ride Like a Pro DVD - Sorry fellas...gotta go against the grain in this situation. Despite what the many well-meaning bikers here may feel...the "Ride Like a Pro" DVD (FWIW, I'm a "fan" and have watched the videos and practiced the exercises numerous times AND took the class) is fantastic, but not for novices. Yes...it may be chock full of great info, but IMHO, it's just too advanced for the beginner/novice so I wouldn't recommend it until you have a better command of the basic controls. Personally, I feel keeping it simple (think MSF Beginner's class) is what is I would recommend it to you at this point. This is just my opinion, mind you...again, the RLAP course/DVD is excellent, but not so much for the beginner. This is my opinion and comes from going through both the MSF and Rider's Edge Instructor Training and having a better understanding about the why's and where-for's of the MSF curriculum and adult learning.
3) The Friction Zone - the big kahuna! This is what really jumped out at me...bottom line is, you need to have command of the friction zone to succeed in the MSF class. It's pretty much the foundation and all the other exercises are built on it. More often than not...students who don't get a command of it, often are the one's dropping the bikes and/or don't pass the class. There is a reason why it's taught/practiced from exercise 2 on (ex 1 is bike familiarization...no riding). It's super important. Once you "get it", your whole class experience will change.
4) Front braking - not gonna harp here, but this is a big one as I know you know. As important as it is...the FZ is more important to master as a learning block.
So, get that friction zone thing down then work on what your other hand and feet are doing. I think you'll find that you'll improve on this with time/practice/experience anyway (hopefully, not after kissing the pavement as a result of front-braking in a curve) and in time, braking and shifting becomes 2nd nature.
Bottom line...my suggestion is to re-take the class when the weather is more tolerable. I have a feeling you'll sail through with flying colors. It's not uncommon for 2nd timers to be among the "best" riders in the class. Since you're not "scared" away and are eager to get back on the horse, I would guess you are not in the category of those who simply find out motorcycles are not for them, but rather one who, for whatever reason (test anxiety, learning style/pace, heat, mind elsewhere due to other life events, etc) just didn't get it done in one very fast-paced weekend...no harm no foul!!!
Good luck and come back and let us know when you pass!!
p.s...not sure I am on board with the "practice" advice simply because the mc you may use may be too big/powerful/$$ for a learner on top of how you'd get it to a parking lot safely/legally and who would be giving you advice...keep in mind, crash statistics do not favor those taught by a friend/family member. Not saying not to practice...just not real sure about this w/o more info....
Last edited by monstead; Jul 24, 2011 at 05:37 PM.
Your releasing the clutch to fast which is causing you to stall the bike and thus get flustered and stressed. Release the clutch a little slower and feel it catch... Same thing happened to me, but I got it toward the end of the day and passed easily.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
And I agree with the advise not to pay too much attention to the advice (?)...A quick check of the forums will turn up lots of people with the attitude that falling down is just part of riding, and it's okay to drop your bike because it happens to everybody.
BS. It's a motor vehicle that you have to have control of at all times. You don't go into a private pilot forum and see threads titled, "well, I crashed today" and dozens of people replying that "it's okay, everybody does it".
Actually, he's not being an ***. I've heard instructors say the same thing. Maybe that's the best place for the OP to start--ask the instructor who was actually there what the next move should be. You said he gave you an "honest assessment", but you didn't say what that was.
And I agree with the advise not to pay too much attention to the advice (?)...A quick check of the forums will turn up lots of people with the attitude that falling down is just part of riding, and it's okay to drop your bike because it happens to everybody.
BS. It's a motor vehicle that you have to have control of at all times. You don't go into a private pilot forum and see threads titled, "well, I crashed today" and dozens of people replying that "it's okay, everybody does it".
Actually, he's not being an ***. I've heard instructors say the same thing. Maybe that's the best place for the OP to start--ask the instructor who was actually there what the next move should be. You said he gave you an "honest assessment", but you didn't say what that was.
Last edited by Sharknose; Jul 23, 2011 at 09:37 PM.
Sounds like you had a good Instructor and since he was a) there, and b) trained to Instruct new riders...I strongly suggest you focus on what he said about your performance and avoid confusing the matter by asking other's what they think. I include yours truly in this, even as an MSF/RidersEdge Instructor myself.
So, despite all that I'm getting ready to type
, my best advice is to resist the temptation to seek out and listen to the advice of strangers...well-meaning as we all may be.
Not only will you get over-loaded...you may get advice that is not "good".
I see you're still reading...so I'll throw in some thoughts I had when I read your post...
1) HEAT - The heat can be and often is a big issue for many. 104F is ROUGH! Esp on the range in jeans/boots/ls shirt/gloves and helmet. Despite attempts to drink plenty of water, it really is next to impossible to get in enough while out on the range in the types of temps you encountered. I'm in Texas and am pretty much well-versed in HEAT.
Dehydration causes fatigue which affects your focus and motor-skills. I've witnessed students "skills" plummet as the day wears on and one particular class that comes to mind (107F), I am confident the heat caused a couple of people to "fail" due to above reasons.
2) Ride Like a Pro DVD - Sorry fellas...gotta go against the grain in this situation. Despite what the many well-meaning bikers here may feel...the "Ride Like a Pro" DVD (FWIW, I'm a "fan" and have watched the videos and practiced the exercises numerous times AND took the class) is fantastic, but not for novices. Yes...it may be chock full of great info, but IMHO, it's just too advanced for the beginner/novice so I wouldn't recommend it until you have a better command of the basic controls. Personally, I feel keeping it simple (think MSF Beginner's class) is what is I would recommend it to you at this point. This is just my opinion, mind you...again, the RLAP course/DVD is excellent, but not so much for the beginner. This is my opinion and comes from going through both the MSF and Rider's Edge Instructor Training and having a better understanding about the why's and where-for's of the MSF curriculum and adult learning.
3) The Friction Zone - the big kahuna! This is what really jumped out at me...bottom line is, you need to have command of the friction zone to succeed in the MSF class. It's pretty much the foundation and all the other exercises are built on it. More often than not...students who don't get a command of it, often are the one's dropping the bikes and/or don't pass the class. There is a reason why it's taught/practiced from exercise 2 on (ex 1 is bike familiarization...no riding). It's super important. Once you "get it", you're whole class experience will change.
4) Front braking - not gonna harp here, but this is a big one as I know you know. As important as it is...the FZ is more important to master as a learning block.
So, get that friction zone thing down then work on what you're other hand and feet are doing. I think you'll find that you'll improve on this with time/practice/experience anyway (hopefully, not after kissing the pavement as a result of front-braking in a curve) and in time, braking and shifting becomes 2nd nature.
Bottom line...my suggestion is to re-take the class when the weather is more tolerable. I have a feeling you'll sail through with flying colors. It's not uncommon for 2nd timers to be among the "best" riders in the class. Since you're not "scared" away and are eager to get back on the horse, I would guess you are not in the category of those who simply find out motorcycles are not for them, but rather one who, for whatever reason (test anxiety, learning style/pace, heat, mind elsewhere due to other life events, etc) just didn't get it done in one very fast-paced weekend...no harm no foul!!!
Good luck and come back and let us know when you pass!!
p.s...not sure I am on board with the "practice" advice simply because the mc you may use may be too big/powerful/$$ for a learner on top of how you'd get it to a parking lot safely/legally and who would be giving you advice...keep in mind, crash statistics do not favor those taught by a friend/family member. Not saying not to practice...just not real sure about this w/o more info....
So, despite all that I'm getting ready to type
, my best advice is to resist the temptation to seek out and listen to the advice of strangers...well-meaning as we all may be. I see you're still reading...so I'll throw in some thoughts I had when I read your post...
1) HEAT - The heat can be and often is a big issue for many. 104F is ROUGH! Esp on the range in jeans/boots/ls shirt/gloves and helmet. Despite attempts to drink plenty of water, it really is next to impossible to get in enough while out on the range in the types of temps you encountered. I'm in Texas and am pretty much well-versed in HEAT.
Dehydration causes fatigue which affects your focus and motor-skills. I've witnessed students "skills" plummet as the day wears on and one particular class that comes to mind (107F), I am confident the heat caused a couple of people to "fail" due to above reasons.
2) Ride Like a Pro DVD - Sorry fellas...gotta go against the grain in this situation. Despite what the many well-meaning bikers here may feel...the "Ride Like a Pro" DVD (FWIW, I'm a "fan" and have watched the videos and practiced the exercises numerous times AND took the class) is fantastic, but not for novices. Yes...it may be chock full of great info, but IMHO, it's just too advanced for the beginner/novice so I wouldn't recommend it until you have a better command of the basic controls. Personally, I feel keeping it simple (think MSF Beginner's class) is what is I would recommend it to you at this point. This is just my opinion, mind you...again, the RLAP course/DVD is excellent, but not so much for the beginner. This is my opinion and comes from going through both the MSF and Rider's Edge Instructor Training and having a better understanding about the why's and where-for's of the MSF curriculum and adult learning.
3) The Friction Zone - the big kahuna! This is what really jumped out at me...bottom line is, you need to have command of the friction zone to succeed in the MSF class. It's pretty much the foundation and all the other exercises are built on it. More often than not...students who don't get a command of it, often are the one's dropping the bikes and/or don't pass the class. There is a reason why it's taught/practiced from exercise 2 on (ex 1 is bike familiarization...no riding). It's super important. Once you "get it", you're whole class experience will change.
4) Front braking - not gonna harp here, but this is a big one as I know you know. As important as it is...the FZ is more important to master as a learning block.
So, get that friction zone thing down then work on what you're other hand and feet are doing. I think you'll find that you'll improve on this with time/practice/experience anyway (hopefully, not after kissing the pavement as a result of front-braking in a curve) and in time, braking and shifting becomes 2nd nature.
Bottom line...my suggestion is to re-take the class when the weather is more tolerable. I have a feeling you'll sail through with flying colors. It's not uncommon for 2nd timers to be among the "best" riders in the class. Since you're not "scared" away and are eager to get back on the horse, I would guess you are not in the category of those who simply find out motorcycles are not for them, but rather one who, for whatever reason (test anxiety, learning style/pace, heat, mind elsewhere due to other life events, etc) just didn't get it done in one very fast-paced weekend...no harm no foul!!!
Good luck and come back and let us know when you pass!!
p.s...not sure I am on board with the "practice" advice simply because the mc you may use may be too big/powerful/$$ for a learner on top of how you'd get it to a parking lot safely/legally and who would be giving you advice...keep in mind, crash statistics do not favor those taught by a friend/family member. Not saying not to practice...just not real sure about this w/o more info....
Great advice
You MUST!!! find the FRICTION ZONE, grasshopper. This is your best friend, without it, you will not be at "one" with your bike. Find it, practice it and never look back!
Best of luck...
Best of luck...
Just in case it has not been mentioned enough, practice practice practice. If shifting is such a big issue find someone who has a four wheel atv that is willing to let you borrow it. You won't have to worry about dropping it. Good luck stay positive don't give up when you learn to ride it will change your life!
I did not pass the first time either. I tried to "think to much". I was worried the friction zone was like riding a break and smoke would be soon seen. I was paying too much attention to the other riders. Anyway, I simply asked to take the class again. The next week an instructor met privately with me. No pressure, no cost, we were both layed back people. We talked about what was wrong and everything came together! I did just fine. I did not have my own ride for practice or that of a friend. I'm glad to say that I'm now doing just fine with just under 500 miles on new ride and loving every time I go out.
Order the DVD Ride like the Pro's. This DVD will go over everything they teach you in the MSF Course....I believe Joe Palidino was the founder of the MSF Course.
http://www.ridelikeapro.com/
Find a parking lot and just practice.
Karsten
http://www.ridelikeapro.com/
Find a parking lot and just practice.
Karsten
One technique professional drivers use is what I call dry runs. You can do it sitting in a chair or riding in a car.
Imagine you are on a bike working the controls. Squeeze the clutch, tap your toe to shift to first, twist you wrist and release the clutch. Do it over and over again. Upshift, downshift. brake. It doesn't matter that you aren't actually riding. You brain/body will become accustomed to the motions.
Imagine you are on a bike working the controls. Squeeze the clutch, tap your toe to shift to first, twist you wrist and release the clutch. Do it over and over again. Upshift, downshift. brake. It doesn't matter that you aren't actually riding. You brain/body will become accustomed to the motions.
Wow. When I took mine...I can't believe some of the people they passed....some of them had no business being on a bike even after the class. If you failed, I can't imagine what you did that was worse than what I saw. No offense.
Like others say...practice.
Like others say...practice.






