View Poll Results: What typically goes wrong with a newer style starter

Solenoid plunger (large contact on it)?

75.00%

Contacts for plunger?

25.00%

Brushes?

Bearings?

Armature and commutator

Fields windings

Did you repair it?

Did you replace whole unit?

Use Harley parts or unit?

Use aftermarket parts or unit?

Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 4. You may not vote on this poll

Starter issues--just what goes first on Harley's newer design starter

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Dec 15, 2011 | 12:19 AM

Jackie Paper

Thread Starter

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From: Honah Lee

Starter issues--just what goes first on Harley's newer design starter

Basically the starter works like this.. You hit starter switch. It cuts on starter relay which cuts on the two stage windings in the solenoid making a magnet out of it. The plunger jumps forward about 1/4 inch bringing the large contact on it bridgeing the two contacts together to turn on the starter motor. The plunger continues forward pushing the spinning pinion starter gear into the ring gear on the clutch shell and cranks the motor. When the motor starts the clutch shell outruns the 3 pins that are cam locked up in the starter drive clutch. This allows the outer gear on the starter to simply be free from the starter drive motor yet still spinning at running chain speed. By then you realize the motor is running and you let off the starter button. As soon as the current stop flowing to the solenoid, the current in the two stage solenoid holding windings act as a capacator just like the points did in older Harley's coil. That reversed polarity current is feed thru the main contacts and reverses the pull on the magnet that with it and along with a spring pulls the starter pinion back out and into the retracted position.

My 04 starter appears to be a good design. At 40K it has not missed a start. Appears to be not spinning up and as solenoid drives it forward it bumps and then starts spinning when it bumps into the ring gear on the clutch housing. Sometime the bump is quite loud and then you can here the starter crank. My guess is it the brushes going south. Does it only when cold just started this winter doing it.

What typical goes first of these starter. Thoughts?

Attached Thumbnails

Starter issues--just what goes first on Harley's newer design starter-starter-operation.jpg

Last edited by Jackie Paper; Dec 15, 2011 at 12:50 PM.

Dec 15, 2011 | 09:16 AM

Bluehighways

Stellar HDF Member

Joined: Feb 2010

Posts: 3,390

Likes: 260

From: Southern California

Sounds like the "Bendix" on your Starter is failing, or more likely the Drive Teeth of the Starter Drive Pinion Gear which is an integral part of the Bendix is damaged. The Bendix is the part of the Starter that contains the Drive Gear Pinion and the One Way Clutch. What you are describing is called Abutment and this is NOT a common problem with Starters, although it does happen. Abutment is when a tooth of the Starter Drive Gear (which is a part of the Bendix) strikes a tooth on the Ring Gear head on. The Starter Drive Gear teeth are tapered (when they are new) so that the Starter Drive Pinion / Bendix Assembly will slide into engagement with the Ring Gear in the direction of Starter rotation. However, if the teeth on either the Starter Dirve Gear or the Ring Gear are buggered up (technical term) and they happen to hit tip to tip the Starter Drive Gear may not slide into engagement with the Ring Gear like it is supposed to. In which case you get a THWACK when you try and crank the engine. After you hit the start key a couple of times and get a couple of THWACK's, the Starter Drive Gear Pinion will eventually engage with the Ring Gear and the Starter will then crank the engine normally . . . until it happens again.

Dec 15, 2011 | 09:20 AM

soft 02

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Joined: Mar 2007

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From: TOAK western branch

OK you left a big one off your pole. Starter clutch! Thats my vote.

Dec 15, 2011 | 09:23 AM

soft 02

Seasoned HDF Member

Joined: Mar 2007

Posts: 66,948

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From: TOAK western branch

Quote:

Originally Posted by grf000

My 04 starter appears to be a good design. At 40K it has not missed a start. Appears to be not spinning up and as solenoid drives it forward it bumps and then starts spinning when it bumps into the ring gear on the clutch housing. Sometime the bump is quite loud and then you can here the starter crank. My guess is it the brushes going south. Does it only when cold just started this winter doing it.

What typical goes first of these starter. Thoughts?

Sounds like either a loose connection or your solenoid contact plate has some corrosion and needs to be filed. Thats my opinion.

Dec 15, 2011 | 09:48 AM

Jackie Paper

Thread Starter

Seasoned HDF Member

Joined: Mar 2010

Posts: 38,424

Likes: 6,368

From: Honah Lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by soft 02

OK you left a big one off your pole. Starter clutch! Thats my vote.

Actually had it on there and in trying to put it all together missed it and too late now to add. However in my case I was just in there and checked ever edge of both pinion on the drive and big ring. It all looked like new on the edges with all the proper bevels and no damage. Pretty sure if you study design and how it works it should be turning before its first contact with big gear. Will tally it on end when post runs out of steam if it goes anywhere. Thanks Blue and Soft

Last edited by Jackie Paper; Dec 15, 2011 at 09:51 AM.

Dec 15, 2011 | 09:50 AM

soft 02

Seasoned HDF Member

Joined: Mar 2007

Posts: 66,948

Likes: 4,573

From: TOAK western branch

Quote:

Originally Posted by grf000

Actually had it on there and in trying to put it all together missed it and too late now to add. However in my case I was just in there and checked ever edge of both pinion on the drive and big ring. It all looked like new on the edges with all the proper bevels and no damage. Will tally it on end when post runs out of steam if it goes anywhere. Thanks Blue and Soft

Have you pulled the cap off or your soliniod to look at the contact plate. I dont think you have to pull the starter to have a look see?

Dec 15, 2011 | 09:52 AM

K00LJerk

Road Captain

Joined: Mar 2007

Posts: 522

Likes: 3

From:

I have an '08 RG at 45K the starter clutch was replaced, about what I'd expect with a starter. My bike gets started at least 2 or 3 times a day almost 365 days a year. I still have the original battery.