Tuner on pre-O2 sensor fuel injected Twin Cams
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 58
Likes: 6
From: Wisconsin
Tuner on pre-O2 sensor fuel injected Twin Cams
New member. I just purchased a 2005 Night Train without O2 sensors after 26 years with a 1987 Sportster 883. Currently it has the SE Stage 1 intake and stock headers with SE slip on mufflers. Seems to run a lot hotter than the 883 and there is a lot of decel popping, So, internet research commenced and I found out about tuners. Now for the questions:
How good are the open-loop MAPs for pre-O2 sensor fuel injected Twin Can motors with only minor modifications? Most of the discussion seems to be focused on the newer models.
Is it worth it to go to a PowerVision or other flash tuner or would it be sufficient to go with a piggyback tuner?
I would love to upgrade the pipes and get the PowerVision with the Autotune with wide-band O2 sensors, but that puts the total to WAY more than I have a budget for since I just got the bike.
What say you? Thanks for the help.
How good are the open-loop MAPs for pre-O2 sensor fuel injected Twin Can motors with only minor modifications? Most of the discussion seems to be focused on the newer models.
Is it worth it to go to a PowerVision or other flash tuner or would it be sufficient to go with a piggyback tuner?
I would love to upgrade the pipes and get the PowerVision with the Autotune with wide-band O2 sensors, but that puts the total to WAY more than I have a budget for since I just got the bike.
What say you? Thanks for the help.
Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 14,564
Likes: 9,223
From: the 50s & the 60s
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I don't care for the piggyback tuners.
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I don't care for the piggyback tuners.
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New member. I just purchased a 2005 Night Train without O2 sensors after 26 years with a 1987 Sportster 883. Currently it has the SE Stage 1 intake and stock headers with SE slip on mufflers. Seems to run a lot hotter than the 883 and there is a lot of decel popping, So, internet research commenced and I found out about tuners. Now for the questions:
How good are the open-loop MAPs for pre-O2 sensor fuel injected Twin Can motors with only minor modifications? Most of the discussion seems to be focused on the newer models.
Is it worth it to go to a PowerVision or other flash tuner or would it be sufficient to go with a piggyback tuner?
I would love to upgrade the pipes and get the PowerVision with the Autotune with wide-band O2 sensors, but that puts the total to WAY more than I have a budget for since I just got the bike.
What say you? Thanks for the help.
How good are the open-loop MAPs for pre-O2 sensor fuel injected Twin Can motors with only minor modifications? Most of the discussion seems to be focused on the newer models.
Is it worth it to go to a PowerVision or other flash tuner or would it be sufficient to go with a piggyback tuner?
I would love to upgrade the pipes and get the PowerVision with the Autotune with wide-band O2 sensors, but that puts the total to WAY more than I have a budget for since I just got the bike.
What say you? Thanks for the help.
Cruiser
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 192
Likes: 3
From: FBI Surveillance Van, UT
I dumped my PC3 (piggy back) for a TTS (flash) when I got my bike dyno'd and it was worth every penny on my 06 softail. They will work wonders with a good tuner over piggy back tuners and I'm pretty sure most folks who want performance will end up capping off the O2 sensors and going with a good dyno tune anyway even on the newer bikes.
You can forgo the dyno and get it close with the help of the tuner manufacturer and save some coin until you are ready to do more mods and get a dyno tune done.
You can forgo the dyno and get it close with the help of the tuner manufacturer and save some coin until you are ready to do more mods and get a dyno tune done.
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,712
Likes: 410
From: Puyallup, WA
A few months ago I bought an '06 Fatboy with Stage 1 mods and a V&H FuelPak (piggyback) V&H sent me a new map and it runs well. Could I get it running better with flash tuner - probably. Could I get it running really well with a dyno tune - again probably. How much time and money do you want spend?
Your new bike does not have a tuner now - correct? If it has a Stage 1 intake and no tuner, it's probably running lean and that's why it's hot. It's really all about the $$$'s.
Your new bike does not have a tuner now - correct? If it has a Stage 1 intake and no tuner, it's probably running lean and that's why it's hot. It's really all about the $$$'s.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 55
From: Londonderry, NH
New member. I just purchased a 2005 Night Train without O2 sensors after 26 years with a 1987 Sportster 883. Currently it has the SE Stage 1 intake and stock headers with SE slip on mufflers. Seems to run a lot hotter than the 883 and there is a lot of decel popping, So, internet research commenced and I found out about tuners. Now for the questions:
How good are the open-loop MAPs for pre-O2 sensor fuel injected Twin Can motors with only minor modifications? Most of the discussion seems to be focused on the newer models.
Is it worth it to go to a PowerVision or other flash tuner or would it be sufficient to go with a piggyback tuner?
I would love to upgrade the pipes and get the PowerVision with the Autotune with wide-band O2 sensors, but that puts the total to WAY more than I have a budget for since I just got the bike.
What say you? Thanks for the help.
How good are the open-loop MAPs for pre-O2 sensor fuel injected Twin Can motors with only minor modifications? Most of the discussion seems to be focused on the newer models.
Is it worth it to go to a PowerVision or other flash tuner or would it be sufficient to go with a piggyback tuner?
I would love to upgrade the pipes and get the PowerVision with the Autotune with wide-band O2 sensors, but that puts the total to WAY more than I have a budget for since I just got the bike.
What say you? Thanks for the help.
A piggyback tuner like one of the Dynojet or Fuel Moto offerings will get the job done if you're open to that solution. I really like the Powervision and prefer a flash tuner. The display and gauges on the PV are really handy.
I'm pretty sure Fuel moto would have been able to supply a stage-1 map, but I had Andrews 48 cams and that combination wasn't common in 88's at the time.
In any case I would start by talking to Fuel Moto. They will get you pointed in the right direction and provide a tunning solution.
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 63
Likes: 4
From: PA
I went thru this on my '02 Road King. SE slip-ons, but no intake yet. Last year I bought the Superchips tuner with the forum discount. It made everything worse for my bike. Stumbled at low speeds, stalled at idle on a few occasions, made it hard to ride, so I returned it and rode as is. Last month I emailed Fuel Moto with my specs and asked for a recommendation between the PV or PC-V, and they recommended the PC-V. Sent it out, took about 20 minutes to install and my bike runs much better. The most noticeable improvements were the low rpm torque and 'less' decal popping. It didn't make it different bike, just improved on what I have.
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Road Master
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 39
From: Olive & Oak
If you start with a piggyback tuner then you end with a piggyback tuner. If you start with the PV2 then you can add the pipes and WB O2 sensors when you get the funds.
Cal the guys at Fuel Moto and talk to them about what you plan to do now and in the furutre. They will set you on the right track.
Cal the guys at Fuel Moto and talk to them about what you plan to do now and in the furutre. They will set you on the right track.
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 58
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From: Wisconsin
Thanks for the information all.
I do not have a tuner currently; however, the previous owner said it was flashed by the dealership after the AC & muffler change.
I did correspond with FuelMoto; however, they didn't indicate anything about MAPs for the bike, just that PowerVision would be a better choice than the PowerCommander V. I was disappointed that the PV won't autotune on my bike without additional purchases, but, oh well, that's what happens when you buy an "old" bike.
I'll probably get a PowerVision over the ThunderMax because the reinitialization of the TM after a battery disconnection is a show stopper for me. I would rather set it and forget it. Both can be had for approximately the same price at FuelMoto (i.e. PV + Autotune Pro is about the same as the TM).
I do not have a tuner currently; however, the previous owner said it was flashed by the dealership after the AC & muffler change.
I did correspond with FuelMoto; however, they didn't indicate anything about MAPs for the bike, just that PowerVision would be a better choice than the PowerCommander V. I was disappointed that the PV won't autotune on my bike without additional purchases, but, oh well, that's what happens when you buy an "old" bike.
I'll probably get a PowerVision over the ThunderMax because the reinitialization of the TM after a battery disconnection is a show stopper for me. I would rather set it and forget it. Both can be had for approximately the same price at FuelMoto (i.e. PV + Autotune Pro is about the same as the TM).
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