which tuner???
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Back in the Good Ole USA. South Carolina to be exact.
Again, I assert that TTS and SESTP have similar yet different programming in their respective flashes. The available input and the available output is the same - it's how the efficiencies are calculated that differences are observed. I also assert that the power with these two tools are not what is uploaded into the ECM; rather it is what can be told to the user of the software to get a closer calibration using the PC based software.
Your final sentence is correct but the rest of this is speculation. The ECM programming can make small decisions that are different than what you put into a VE cell. Adaptive fuel is a perfect example of where it makes a modification to help reach a desired effect. These are not written into any of the tables that you can modify - they are written into working tables stored in the working memory area of the ecm.
Ask yourself one question - if it was this easy to work with tables that the ECM owned - why does the SERT, TTS and the SESTP require a dongle to interface with it? I don't know the answer and I am quite sure that you don't know either - we are both speculating based on our experience with the tools that we use. I have had the advantage of looking at the software from all three above and they are very similar. I only assert that there are ways of deriving final output that can be flashed into the ECM at some level and that the DELPHI software simply provides a mechanism to receive input and send output - but again this is a speculation. I just figure if it was easy to just upload some tables then everyone would be directly interfacing with the ECM and not needing a proprietary set of software to do it.
Club Member
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I don't disagree with this, but adaptive fuel is a value the ECM derives by comparing feedback from the O2 sensor to what is stored in the ECM. It is used to achieve the desired AFR, not to make an informed decision that even though one AFR is called for here we really should use another.
I suppose delphi could have made the ECM w/a USB or serial port so that it could be connected directly, but in the case of the SESTP the VCI converts usb communications to what ever protocol the ECM requires, it records data while doing data runs, and when I flash the ECM it stores a copy of the map. Utilizing the VCI does indeed require that a purchase be made.
I continue to speculate that Delphi is the low level box that you describe and for descriptive purposes only the TTS, SERT and SESTP boot up with the additional features that use the i/o in the ECM provisioned by Delphi.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Back in the Good Ole USA. South Carolina to be exact.
I dont know about the sestp but the SERT and TTS present a closed loop bias table which in fact changes the AFR either higher or lower based on values stored in that table while running closed loop. Another example of something else changing what you think you put in a cell (AFR in this instance)
Again this is a value that the ECM takes into consideration when trying to achieve the desired AFR. If it is not correct you may not get the desired AFR, but if a specific cell at RPM/MAP is 13.8 then the ECM is trying to output 13.8 for that cell. If the observed value is other, then it means the information it is basing the calculations on isn't accurate. VE, CLB, Sensor input, etc.
Again I am going to stand by my contention that the ECM is going to try to produce the AFR that is requested.
I don't doubt that some really smart individual could hack together an interface to do this.
I noticed recently after an update to my software which included a firmware update to my VCI that when I flashed a map to the ecm, that it downloaded the map to the VCI when the upload was complete. I can retreive ths map from the vci and save it if I want. I suppose this is handy if I take the bike and VCI to a tuner he will readily have a copy of the current map.
Tourer
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 269
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From: Madison WI
here's one guys results...(sert)
http://www.*****************/forums/tw...as-tables.html
edit to add this addl info:
(also picked up from another site)
"A switching point of 450 mv will give you about 14.7 AFR and a switch point of 798 mv will give you about 14.2 AFR. Normal range would be 250 - 675 mv. I usually go with 700 mv."
Last edited by Gordon65; Jun 22, 2010 at 02:14 PM.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,718
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From: Back in the Good Ole USA. South Carolina to be exact.
What is ColdCase's relationship w/Steve?
Club Member
Joined: Feb 2007
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He apparently talks to him on other forums. Since I don't visit them, I don't know what they are. I would think that the simple question for Steve is - what value does the TTS software add to the actual ECM itself other than loading table data.
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,718
Likes: 11
From: Back in the Good Ole USA. South Carolina to be exact.
This woud seem to be the root of our discussion.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,718
Likes: 11
From: Back in the Good Ole USA. South Carolina to be exact.
here's one guys results...(sert)
http://www.*****************/forums/tw...as-tables.html
edit to add this addl info:
(also picked up from another site)
"A switching point of 450 mv will give you about 14.7 AFR and a switch point of 798 mv will give you about 14.2 AFR. Normal range would be 250 - 675 mv. I usually go with 700 mv."
http://www.*****************/forums/tw...as-tables.html
edit to add this addl info:
(also picked up from another site)
"A switching point of 450 mv will give you about 14.7 AFR and a switch point of 798 mv will give you about 14.2 AFR. Normal range would be 250 - 675 mv. I usually go with 700 mv."
My intent now is to compile data runs and do smart tunes till I have my ve tables to the point where smart tune is making minimal changes. Then I'm gonna try fattening up the closed loop AFRs starting about 14.0. Granted this will put these areas into open loop.
Last edited by jluvs2ride; Jun 22, 2010 at 05:41 PM.