Power Vision Information Thread
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 66
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It's generally going down the Interstate in 6th. The cams are low end torque cams. Well the VE calibration is the strange thing. VE tuned in really fast and has not changed since. Literally two runs and I haven't seen a change since. The initial changes from the original map were very small. This motor is is a beast from 3500RPMs up and it runs well from 3k up. I chased an FJR, Phil M from the VR last weekend and I stayed on his rear all day. He even asked why didn't you just pass me. he said "I have never seen anybody ride a Harley like that". The thing is I was chasing him riding the motor between 4-5k. With the 255 cams I would expect to be able to do it lower in the RPM range.
I haven't dug into the timing like you have, but it looks like I may need to. I just tuned until I got to no more changes.
I haven't dug into the timing like you have, but it looks like I may need to. I just tuned until I got to no more changes.
I still do find it strange that your VE dialed in that quickly. You should still be seeing changes fairly constantly but within the +/-2 range. I would almost be tempted (were I you) to make a new route... a bit longer than the current, and start that map over. Hell, I would almost say reset the ECM, put the stock calibration on it, then dump the FM base map on and rerun it.
Did you have the bike tuned via Dyno after the work was done?? I'm not sure if using basic auto-tune will adjust fully for the cams and heads. If you had it dyno'd did you pull the data from the other tuner's tables?? It may not translate correctly, I'm not sure... Jamie would have more clue on that than I. Or did Jamie give you a map FOR your bike with the work done on it?
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,598
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From: Naples FL / Pine TWP PA
Jamie gave me a map for my motor. The timing was not dialing in and I discussed it with him. I went back to the TC96 timing for the SE255 cams and dialed that in. It took four runs from that timing map. Maybe this is a VE issue. I initially thought wow that dialed in fast, now I'm starting to think maybe there is a problem. Well as far as timing goes, I should have better power and throttle response with the 255 cams lower in the RPM range so I think it should shift down some. When I rode hard with the 96 and the same cams I ran it between 3k and 4k. This motor is between 4k and 5k. It has a lot more get up and go, it's just from mid RPM range to the top of the RPM range. The bottom is sluggish but the torque is there as far as the motor goes.
Last edited by FX4; Jun 17, 2011 at 07:57 AM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 18
From: Upstate SC
Jamie gave me a map for my motor. The timing was not dialing in and I discussed it with him. I went back to the TC96 timing for the SE255 cams and dialed that in. It took four runs from that timing map. Maybe this is a VE issue. I initially thought wow that dialed in fast, now I'm starting to think maybe there is a problem. Well as far as timing goes, I should have better power and throttle response with the 255 cams lower in the RPM range so I think it should shift down some. When I rode hard with the 96 and the same cams I ran it between 3k and 4k. This motor is between 4k and 5k. It has a lot more get up and go, it's just from mid RPM range to the top of the RPM range. The bottom is sluggish but the torque is there as far as the motor goes.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 19
From: Naples FL / Pine TWP PA
If you aren't seeing any VE changes there is definitely a problem with the process. I don't think you can make 2 runs that don't show ANY changes due to all the variables, gas, temp, route taken, etc. I can sit at a red light, with front VE and Rear VE being displayed on the Power Vision and watch them change up and down maybe +/- .5.
4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
2011 Softail
Just recieved my PV-2 and married the device to by ride. Jamie said no maps are available yet for 2011 flstse2 so will have to play a little bit on my own.
I had Yellowstone HD install V&H double barrel staggered pipes and do a dyno on it. Much better response and also sounds like a Harley now.
I am having some issues with it running hot and also decel popping. That's the reason I bought this device as the dealer said this is normal?
Bob
I had Yellowstone HD install V&H double barrel staggered pipes and do a dyno on it. Much better response and also sounds like a Harley now.
I am having some issues with it running hot and also decel popping. That's the reason I bought this device as the dealer said this is normal?Bob
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 18
From: Upstate SC
All the rest should have data. Lambda1 & 2 are only used if you have the wideband sensors. If any of that data is missing, you would not get any tune changes.
When you run the PV Log Tuner, once you verify the options are set correctly, then you open the correct value file, then load a log file and calculate tune, you should be able to go under the tuning table table drop down and see how many hits are recorded in each cell. Are you seeing that?
Last edited by JustDennis; Jun 17, 2011 at 10:04 AM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 19
From: Naples FL / Pine TWP PA
Just as you see it changing, those same changes should get reflected in the log data you are collecting. Open one of your log tuning files and be sure you are getting data in all the columns. You should see data in TP, VE Front, Lambda1, MAP, ET, Lambda2, RPM, Acel Enr, Set AFR, Warm-up AFR, Spark Knock F, Spark Knock R, VE New Front, VE New Rear. After 1 minute you should begin seeing data in all the columns. The only ones you would expect to be zero would be Accel Enrichment and the 2 spark knock columns. Warmup AFR will eventually change to 0 also.
All the rest should have data. Lambda1 & 2 are only used if you have the wideband sensors. If any of that data is missing, you would not get any tune changes.
When you run the PV Log Tuner, once you verify the options are set correctly, then you open the correct value file, then load a log file and calculate tune, you should be able to go under the tuning table table drop down and see how many hits are recorded in each cell. Are you seeing that?
All the rest should have data. Lambda1 & 2 are only used if you have the wideband sensors. If any of that data is missing, you would not get any tune changes.
When you run the PV Log Tuner, once you verify the options are set correctly, then you open the correct value file, then load a log file and calculate tune, you should be able to go under the tuning table table drop down and see how many hits are recorded in each cell. Are you seeing that?
And yes I see the hits at any given value in the tuning table. It just records no changes. I dialed in timing the same way. I kept going until I got zero changes.
The bike runs really well, I'm just having problems with a lazy throttle in the lower half of the RPM range which makes me think I pulled too much timing out. Above 3k is good and above 3.5k the thing is insanely quick to redline.
Last edited by FX4; Jun 17, 2011 at 10:49 AM.
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
From: Rowlett, TX
I do not generally recommend copying tables (specifically VE tables) one calibration to the next as there can be substantial differences in the "architecture" in the background of the map.
If you are using a calibration that does not have the latest tables or new features you can use the following procedure to expose these tables 1) make sure you have the latest firmware and software with the update client 2) flash your calibration to the ECM 3) on the PV unit go to the tune manager and Load Current 4) connect to WinPv and retrieve this calibration from the tune manager and all of the latest tables and features will be exposed
If you are using a calibration that does not have the latest tables or new features you can use the following procedure to expose these tables 1) make sure you have the latest firmware and software with the update client 2) flash your calibration to the ECM 3) on the PV unit go to the tune manager and Load Current 4) connect to WinPv and retrieve this calibration from the tune manager and all of the latest tables and features will be exposed
Regarding moving the data from the FM tune into my stock tune...that really wasn't my first choice. But the gear indicators on my speedometer didn't work correctly when using any variation of the FM map, and they did work using the stock map. This was even after making the gear ratios in the FM map match those in the stock map. I figured I'd try my solution, since it only took a few moments, and when it worked, I forgot about the issue and drove on. Probably I should have called and spoke to you about this, but I really didn't want to waste your time on a problem I no longer had!
I believe you, however, when you say that this is a bad idea in general. If you think it's warranted, I'll go back and start over with my original FM map, but I'll need some ideas on how to fix the gear indicator issues. I discussed this problem back on posts 444 and 464 of this thread.
Art
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Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,949
Likes: 288
Hi all,
Question about gauges. I am preparing to do my first data log runs this weekend. I have the PV wired, selected the signals to record, and chose a gauge template to view with key signals. Rode in to work today and decided to view the gauges. Got the gauges up and running, but didn't select "Start Log". After about 10 minutes, the gauges disappeared and the PV reverted to the main Data Log menu. I would like to just view the gauges without data logging every time. Is this possible, or do I just log. Would be nice to keep track during all day rides and longer trips. Thanks for any advice.
TedMan
Question about gauges. I am preparing to do my first data log runs this weekend. I have the PV wired, selected the signals to record, and chose a gauge template to view with key signals. Rode in to work today and decided to view the gauges. Got the gauges up and running, but didn't select "Start Log". After about 10 minutes, the gauges disappeared and the PV reverted to the main Data Log menu. I would like to just view the gauges without data logging every time. Is this possible, or do I just log. Would be nice to keep track during all day rides and longer trips. Thanks for any advice.
TedMan
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 18
From: Upstate SC
Hi all,
Question about gauges. I am preparing to do my first data log runs this weekend. I have the PV wired, selected the signals to record, and chose a gauge template to view with key signals. Rode in to work today and decided to view the gauges. Got the gauges up and running, but didn't select "Start Log". After about 10 minutes, the gauges disappeared and the PV reverted to the main Data Log menu. I would like to just view the gauges without data logging every time. Is this possible, or do I just log. Would be nice to keep track during all day rides and longer trips. Thanks for any advice.
TedMan
Question about gauges. I am preparing to do my first data log runs this weekend. I have the PV wired, selected the signals to record, and chose a gauge template to view with key signals. Rode in to work today and decided to view the gauges. Got the gauges up and running, but didn't select "Start Log". After about 10 minutes, the gauges disappeared and the PV reverted to the main Data Log menu. I would like to just view the gauges without data logging every time. Is this possible, or do I just log. Would be nice to keep track during all day rides and longer trips. Thanks for any advice.
TedMan