Power Vision Information Thread
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
As to which is better- they both have their pluses and minuses. I would only prefer the MAP based tuning because it makes more sense to me in my head, basing fuel changes on kpa / load vs throttle position. plus, the spark timing tables are MAP-based, so it would just feel more uniform to me.
Both methods do a decent job given the stripped down, limited version of Delphi used by HD, and general dependency on the MAP sensor. Car mfr's have moved away from MAP and use MAF (Mass Air Flow) based tuning. Even better. And the Delphi tuning parameters on cars are way more full featured for optimizing both economy AND top performance. Maybe we'll get that on HD's by 2020...;p.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,648
Likes: 37
From: Monroe, Louisiana
Mac- Nice to see you here. What did the 2012 Trikes come with on intake and injectors, 50mm / 4.9? I'm assuming that should be sufficient for a stock motor with pipes, intake and the Genesis 577 cam.
Ken- would be super helpful if you could post the details on your motor such as heads, compression, pistons etc. if any of that was changed along with the cam.
Ken- would be super helpful if you could post the details on your motor such as heads, compression, pistons etc. if any of that was changed along with the cam.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
Pretty sure it is same as all touring with 50MM TB and 4.35 injectors. That is what it has been since the 96 Twin Cam came along in the touring. The dyna and softails had 48 MM and 3.91 injectors and still do I think. At least that is what has been in the ones I made maps for. The 4.9 is good step up for the 3.91 in the 48 MM.
yep - I ordered the SE 4.9 injectors, should be here this week. BTW - do you have to pull the tank to change injectors or can you cheat by lifting the rear of tank and propping it up?
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 110
Likes: 16
From: Fuquay Varina, NC
I really can't answer that one- who knows why HD did what they did. Maybe the bagger fbw bikes can "go either way"? hah. Anyway, my cable throttle HD only seems to be able to use TPS-based tuning. the ECM has no available VE tables that are MAP based.
As to which is better- they both have their pluses and minuses. I would only prefer the MAP based tuning because it makes more sense to me in my head, basing fuel changes on kpa / load vs throttle position. plus, the spark timing tables are MAP-based, so it would just feel more uniform to me.
Both methods do a decent job given the stripped down, limited version of Delphi used by HD, and general dependency on the MAP sensor. Car mfr's have moved away from MAP and use MAF (Mass Air Flow) based tuning. Even better. And the Delphi tuning parameters on cars are way more full featured for optimizing both economy AND top performance. Maybe we'll get that on HD's by 2020...;p.
As to which is better- they both have their pluses and minuses. I would only prefer the MAP based tuning because it makes more sense to me in my head, basing fuel changes on kpa / load vs throttle position. plus, the spark timing tables are MAP-based, so it would just feel more uniform to me.
Both methods do a decent job given the stripped down, limited version of Delphi used by HD, and general dependency on the MAP sensor. Car mfr's have moved away from MAP and use MAF (Mass Air Flow) based tuning. Even better. And the Delphi tuning parameters on cars are way more full featured for optimizing both economy AND top performance. Maybe we'll get that on HD's by 2020...;p.
First, when I compare my autotune results versus the original Dynojet stock high-flow tune... my new tune results are generally a little leaner. Does that sound right?
Second, today was extremely hot and humid... 101 degrees! I did a lot of stop and go driving towards the end of the ride... man was I hot. The PV2 gauges peaked at ET of 243 degrees and coolant temp at 217 degrees. I figure this is about as hot that I will ever ride. Do the temps sound in the right range?
Thanks for any input!
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
I decided to go out and run an autotune session today. While the stock tune for for the high flow A/C ran good, now the bike runs even better/smoother! I'd be interested in your observations on my results. My Limited just has the Fuel Moto Pro Billet A/C installed... no other mods.
First, when I compare my autotune results versus the original Dynojet stock high-flow tune... my new tune results are generally a little leaner. Does that sound right?
Second, today was extremely hot and humid... 101 degrees! I did a lot of stop and go driving towards the end of the ride... man was I hot. The PV2 gauges peaked at ET of 243 degrees and coolant temp at 217 degrees. I figure this is about as hot that I will ever ride. Do the temps sound in the right range?
Thanks for any input!
First, when I compare my autotune results versus the original Dynojet stock high-flow tune... my new tune results are generally a little leaner. Does that sound right?
Second, today was extremely hot and humid... 101 degrees! I did a lot of stop and go driving towards the end of the ride... man was I hot. The PV2 gauges peaked at ET of 243 degrees and coolant temp at 217 degrees. I figure this is about as hot that I will ever ride. Do the temps sound in the right range?
Thanks for any input!
Bottom line is, if it's running great then put away the tuning and go ride!
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 110
Likes: 16
From: Fuquay Varina, NC
if your bike is a wet head then yep seems about right on temps. your tune after running AT basic VE's will usually be a bit leaner. Every decent tune file I have run through AT basic came out leaner. I think it's just the nature of narrow band tuning.
Bottom line is, if it's running great then put away the tuning and go ride!
Bottom line is, if it's running great then put away the tuning and go ride!
Last edited by RonaldNC; Jun 18, 2015 at 06:46 AM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,849
Likes: 1,389
From: Florida
**Power Vision Information Thread**Sticky Approved by Admin
Question for the fellas here. So let's say I finished autotuning with my current motor configuration. Now I want to change my pipe. Still a 2-1 just like before but a different brand (rush 2-2 to a thunderheader). Should I start autotuning my base map all over again with the new pipe or run autotune on my finished map with the new pipe? Also would this apply if I changed heads on the same bike. Like if I had a clave job done before but then I had the heads ported?
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,928
Likes: 117
From: Ashby, Ma
Question for the fellas here. So let's say I finished autotuning with my current motor configuration. Now I want to change my pipe. Still a 2-1 just like before but a different brand (rush 2-2 to a thunderheader). Should I start autotuning my base map all over again with the new pipe or run autotune on my finished map with the new pipe? Also would this apply if I changed heads on the same bike. Like if I had a clave job done before but then I had the heads ported?
But, having said that, you could start from either and get to the same end state, one might just take a couple more AT runs than the other.
I'd just start from where you are.
PS you don't metnion cams, but if you change cams that is going to change timing and you might want to look around for a similar build to see what their timing (spark tables) look like. But again, you didn't mention cams. I can't imagine doing head work if you aren't doing some type of performance cam.
Last edited by oldhippie; Jun 18, 2015 at 03:41 PM.
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Joe Kucinski
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,849
Likes: 1,389
From: Florida
**Power Vision Information Thread**Sticky Approved by Admin
Originally Posted by oldhippie
In either case, the new pipe, or a valve job or P&P heads etc. I would start from where you are. You are closer to the end state from where you are than the initial base tune.
But, having said that, you could start from either and get to the same end state, one might just take a couple more AT runs than the other.
I'd just start from where you are.
PS you don't metnion cams, but if you change cams that is going to change timing and you might want to look around for a similar build to see what their timing (spark tables) look like. But again, you didn't mention cams. I can't imagine doing head work if you aren't doing some type of performance cam.
But, having said that, you could start from either and get to the same end state, one might just take a couple more AT runs than the other.
I'd just start from where you are.
PS you don't metnion cams, but if you change cams that is going to change timing and you might want to look around for a similar build to see what their timing (spark tables) look like. But again, you didn't mention cams. I can't imagine doing head work if you aren't doing some type of performance cam.