Power Vision Information Thread
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 18
From: Upstate SC
Yeah, that's in the current beta FW that we have, but I haven't tried it yet. I was referring more to the ritual of working with WinPV and PV Tune, not setting the datalog signals in the PV. Once you do that you shouldn't need to do it again, but in in the two computer apps you must do it manually each time, which is a multi-step process. That's the part I think they should streamline. Are we on the same train of thought?
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,858
Likes: 217
From: Puyallup Wa.
Google docs will not open the data log files I have they are to big. But found out I have some sort of trial on my lap top I can make 20 views LOL I have 3 large data logs and in all of them I see "0" in spark retard front and rear. I am surprised because I can hear pinging. I think I do anyway. I also thought I took rpm up past 4 a couple of times but logs show I never went past 3900. At a glance the VEs look very similar to the fuel moto tune I have. I did not notice it on this ride but have had some weird idle issues. I not in the log I found idle spots of around 970 for steady amount of time. I also see where it idles at exactly 1000. Is that a normal observation?
I am excited to hear about the simplified tune set up on the power vision. It does not bother me so much to have to make computer steps. But found it really bothersome sitting there with bike on fumbling around the power vision.
The bike seems to get up go. I can not imagine adding timing until I see some retard but I may just to see if it works? Part of my problem is being able to have enough time to play with tune consistently for me its play for a few hours then have to wait several days. I lose my train of thought. LOL I need to take a week off......
I am excited to hear about the simplified tune set up on the power vision. It does not bother me so much to have to make computer steps. But found it really bothersome sitting there with bike on fumbling around the power vision.
The bike seems to get up go. I can not imagine adding timing until I see some retard but I may just to see if it works? Part of my problem is being able to have enough time to play with tune consistently for me its play for a few hours then have to wait several days. I lose my train of thought. LOL I need to take a week off......
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,858
Likes: 217
From: Puyallup Wa.
[quote=DynoJet is actually working on a screen that does exactly this. It sets all the values as they should be for logging and pulls up a screen that monitors and marks the cells you have hit while riding. All you do is start the log and ride. I tested it several times and sent them suggestions. Works really well. We should probably see it in one of the releases soon.[/quote]
This will be really nice I hope they release it sooner rather than later.
This will be really nice I hope they release it sooner rather than later.
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
I've been playing with the gauges and noticed that the measurement IAT, which I think is intake air temperature, runs higher than I thought. I have the factory football cover and the Screaming Eagle back plate on my bike.
I went on a relatively short ride after mounting the unit on my bike over the weekend. The IAT ran from about 120°F or so when going down the road to 140° or so after stopped at a light for a few minutes.
This seems rather high to me. I've always heard that lowering IAT would help overall performance of an engine which is why there are a lot of cold air intake kits for cars.
Does IAT stand for intake air temperature? If so, are the results I observed normal for an Ultra with lowers? I'm wondering if replacing the football cover with something else such as HD 28728-10 would lower the air temperature and potentially help overall performance?
Anyone have any thoughts on this subject?
I went on a relatively short ride after mounting the unit on my bike over the weekend. The IAT ran from about 120°F or so when going down the road to 140° or so after stopped at a light for a few minutes.
This seems rather high to me. I've always heard that lowering IAT would help overall performance of an engine which is why there are a lot of cold air intake kits for cars.
Does IAT stand for intake air temperature? If so, are the results I observed normal for an Ultra with lowers? I'm wondering if replacing the football cover with something else such as HD 28728-10 would lower the air temperature and potentially help overall performance?
Anyone have any thoughts on this subject?
The HD Heavy Breather has a rain cover in the kit, but at $300 I'll pass. They don't make it for antique bikes like my '07 anyway.
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
You only turn off AE and DE while doing the tuning runs. By turning them off you are better able to set the VEs accurately. The VE table is just a measure of how well the engine flows air. Once that is accurately set, you can turn AE and DE back on and they work just as they are intended. Setting the VE values correctly sets the basis for all other changes
To me, setting up the logging is the part folks seem to have the most trouble with. Once you do the other steps a couple of times, it becomes very easy to repeat. I think DJ is leaving this open ended to be a little more flexible in what you can do. I agree that maybe they could incorporate the updating of the calibration into the PV tuner but you still need WinPV to load the tune to the PV
OTOH the repetitive nature of the WinPV and PV Tune ritual can be streamlined, IMO. For example, in WinPV adding a simple button called "Prep Tune" would select the five tables that PV Tune needs, then saves them to the PVV filename you specify. The latter part (file saving) should remain interactive so you can pick the PVT you want. Then, for the last step that now says "Save PVV", have it save to the value file and add the changes to your specified PVT file. As it is now you can only save the PVV and you must enter WinPV again to load the PVV values into your PVT file, then save it. There are too many steps, but you're right that after a few times doing it it becomes second-nature.
FWIW, I'll first save the five tables to PV-Tune-START.PVV, always using this filename. After the datalogging run and going through PV Tune's steps I save the PVV to PV-Tune-FIN.PVV, always using that filename. I then rename the old tune to PV-1Mo.PVT (the "o" for "old"), re-open WinPV, append PV-Tune-FIN.PVV to PV-1Mo.PVT, and finally save it to PV-1M.PVT. Send the file to the PV into the same slot as before and flash it. This has worked out well for me so far. BTW, if I make major changes to a PVT file I'll move the last letter up, like the next iteration would be PV-1N.PVT, but I haven't been doing this for the tuning changes, as there are too many of them and I'd run out of letters in the alphabet. I save the previous PVT file (e.g. PV-1Mo.PVT) for safekeeping just in case I need to revert to it for some reason.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,459
Likes: 674
From: Vancouver Island B.C.
If you were to leave it disabled it can cause hesitation. The AE and DE tables are to adjust transitional fuel. They are active every time the throttle is moved, taking the bike out of closed loop. "Zeroing" them out just allows you to collect more data.
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
I currently have Excel 2003 and it can't read the longer log files either, clipping them before the end. I don't know the cutoff point, though. I try to make my logs last about 15 min. each, as PV Tune can handle multiple CSV files at a time. I just have to remember to do it while riding, but PV Tune seems to have no limit to file size, at least if so I haven't found it. AFAIK the only downside to the larger CSV files is being able to view them in third-party applications like Excel, Google, etc. You'd think Excel could handle a longer file for crissakes.
If you can hear detonation it should be showing-up in your logs. I never hear detonation but I see some occasionally in the logs. Make sure Knock Control in Limits and Switches (WinPV) is set to 1 (enabled).
It should show it if you did.
What exactly are the "weird idle issues"? If you see 1000 rpm on your tach and the log files show 970, I would say this is normal, as my tach and ECM tach don't exactly jibe either. At a typical 952 rpm idle speed in the ECM the analog gauge shows around 875-900 on my bike. My speedo doesn't match up with VSS either, but I'm resigned to these little anomalies since they don't seem to cause any problems.
I haven't tried it yet, but my impression is that since PV Tune can't increase spark advance you can do it manually and let PV Tune decrease it with the Spark Knock feature. IOW, just increase your advance 2° (or whatever) across-the-board and let PV Tune tweak it downward over repeated datalog runs. Again, I haven't tried this, so maybe someone who has can comment on its effectiveness. Dennis? Hal?
I have 3 large data logs and in all of them I see "0" in spark retard front and rear. I am surprised because I can hear pinging. I think I do anyway.
I also thought I took rpm up past 4 a couple of times but logs show I never went past 3900.
At a glance the VEs look very similar to the fuel moto tune I have. I did not notice it on this ride but have had some weird idle issues. I not in the log I found idle spots of around 970 for steady amount of time. I also see where it idles at exactly 1000. Is that a normal observation?
The bike seems to get up go. I can not imagine adding timing until I see some retard but I may just to see if it works?
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I haven't and it seems to keep reducing values in the VE tables when I calc, which I believe has been increasing my engine temps.
I'm using NB O2s for the time being, as I don't have WB
Last edited by kevin06vino; Jul 11, 2011 at 03:14 PM. Reason: added o2 type
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,459
Likes: 674
From: Vancouver Island B.C.
So is this the trick, zeroing the AE and DE on my Nightster, to get good logs while tuning?
I haven't and it seems to keep reducing values in the VE tables when I calc, which I believe has been increasing my engine temps.
I'm using NB O2s for the time being, as I don't have WB
I haven't and it seems to keep reducing values in the VE tables when I calc, which I believe has been increasing my engine temps.
I'm using NB O2s for the time being, as I don't have WB