1959 clutch getting wet...
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3rd Gear
Joined: Jun 2008
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1959 clutch getting wet...
i have a '59 sporty, the engine was rebuilt 2 years ago and it runs top notch. the clutch was just replaced last december by a harley dealer. the guy i bought it from had all the recpts so i know he is telling me the truth. but he sold it because he thought the engine was seized or the kickstarter was messed up. his story goes like this- "i was out ridind around my neighbor hood just havin a good time, when i came to a stop sign the bike stalled and i \\;could not kick or pop start the bike so i pushed it home and parked it" \\;
 \\;i get the bike, pull the clutch \\;assembly appart and its full of oil so i \\;cleaned the \\;friction disks really well got 90% of the oil off, put a \\;new gasket on the front of the basket, and reassemble it \\;( the seal on the back of the basket was replaced at the harley shop). the bike starts and runs and rides great, about 35miles later it gets really sluggish and \\;dies, wont kick over or pop start, \\;i take it home in a truck and have not pulled it apart yet but i beleve its the same problem. \\; \\;
its like the oil is getting into the clutch and sticking the disks together or somthing.
i run 20W-50 and i put about a quart in the primary. i dont know what else to do. please help. \\; \\;
 \\;i get the bike, pull the clutch \\;assembly appart and its full of oil so i \\;cleaned the \\;friction disks really well got 90% of the oil off, put a \\;new gasket on the front of the basket, and reassemble it \\;( the seal on the back of the basket was replaced at the harley shop). the bike starts and runs and rides great, about 35miles later it gets really sluggish and \\;dies, wont kick over or pop start, \\;i take it home in a truck and have not pulled it apart yet but i beleve its the same problem. \\; \\;
its like the oil is getting into the clutch and sticking the disks together or somthing.
i run 20W-50 and i put about a quart in the primary. i dont know what else to do. please help. \\; \\;
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,711
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From: SW WA.
RE: 1959 clutch getting wet...
Assuming you don't have a bad seal and the primary isn't over filling you might want to get a Barnett wet or dry clutch pack set.
However.........
Cleaning up the discs with brake cleaner will get all the oil out and a little trick that was actually in my H/D service manual for my early FXR with a dry clutch was to spray non petrolium based silicone lube on the discs before reinstalling them.
It seals out oil and moisture and keeps the discs from sticking together.
Make sure you aren't over filling the motor oil,it can pump into the primary through vent holes from the crankcase.
Always check the oil with the engine hot,oil sumps down into the crankcase and will return to the tank when you start it up,checking cold may show low on the dipstick and if you add oil it will be over filled.
However.........
Cleaning up the discs with brake cleaner will get all the oil out and a little trick that was actually in my H/D service manual for my early FXR with a dry clutch was to spray non petrolium based silicone lube on the discs before reinstalling them.
It seals out oil and moisture and keeps the discs from sticking together.
Make sure you aren't over filling the motor oil,it can pump into the primary through vent holes from the crankcase.
Always check the oil with the engine hot,oil sumps down into the crankcase and will return to the tank when you start it up,checking cold may show low on the dipstick and if you add oil it will be over filled.
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2006
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From:
RE: 1959 clutch getting wet...
Whether the clutch is wet or not should have no bearing on whether the bike will run. When you say you can't kick start it, do you mean that the engine won't turn over? When you try to pop start it does the rear wheel just lock up? If so it might be your crankcase vent. Is the one under the generator clear and venting? You might be getting "liquid lock"
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
RE: 1959 clutch getting wet...
Take a moment and think about it.
If the dry clutch is full of oil, what is going to happen?
The clutch will slip. This results in high engine rpm and you are not moving forward.
There is no way that I know of that a clutch can bog down an engine and prevent it from turning.
I rather think you have a much more serious problem. It sounds to me like the engine is binding up but without pulling the top end down I have no idea of what the problem may be.
 \\;You said you had the clutch apart. Did the engine turn over using a wrench on the crank nut?
It should. You may want to pull it again and see if the crank moves. Or, remove the spark plugs and put it in 4th gear. Raise the rear tire off the ground and grabbing the tire, rotate the wheel by hand. The engine should turn freely...........pg
If the dry clutch is full of oil, what is going to happen?
The clutch will slip. This results in high engine rpm and you are not moving forward.
There is no way that I know of that a clutch can bog down an engine and prevent it from turning.
I rather think you have a much more serious problem. It sounds to me like the engine is binding up but without pulling the top end down I have no idea of what the problem may be.
 \\;You said you had the clutch apart. Did the engine turn over using a wrench on the crank nut?
It should. You may want to pull it again and see if the crank moves. Or, remove the spark plugs and put it in 4th gear. Raise the rear tire off the ground and grabbing the tire, rotate the wheel by hand. The engine should turn freely...........pg
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3rd Gear
Joined: Jun 2008
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RE: 1959 clutch getting wet...
the engine \\;turns freely at the crank but once it goes to the clutch it wont do anything. i take the clutch off and the trans turns easy, and \\;the crank does too, leave the clutch on \\;and nothing turns. \\;
"If the dry clutch is full of oil, what is going to happen?
The clutch will slip. This results in high engine rpm and you are not moving forward.
There is no way that I know of that a clutch can bog down an engine and prevent it from turning. "
 \\;
thats what i thought but its really weird. but the top end turns freely, i think the clutch is the problem.
"If the dry clutch is full of oil, what is going to happen?
The clutch will slip. This results in high engine rpm and you are not moving forward.
There is no way that I know of that a clutch can bog down an engine and prevent it from turning. "
 \\;
thats what i thought but its really weird. but the top end turns freely, i think the clutch is the problem.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
RE: 1959 clutch getting wet...
The engine turns the clutch shell (basket) via the primary chain. The 7 clutch plates and the 8 steel plates (including the backing plate) are compressed to make the power transfer to the transmission.
When the clutch lever is pulled in the 6 springs are compressed and this allows the plates to become free, disconnecting power to the transmission.
If this dry clutch becomes wet with oil it may cause the plates to become gummy and the result is excessive drag.
This condition would result in the clutch failing to fully disengage, so when you come up to a stop sign for example and step on the brake with the clutch lever in, the drag prevents the engine from running freely and the result is an engine that may die at the stop sign, But it is not going to freeze up, nor is going to fail to kick over and start right up.
I have no idea of what may be causing the engine not to turn over, other than to be sure it is not because of the clutch being wet with oil. Keep us posted on what you find. This is a real puzzler...........pg
When the clutch lever is pulled in the 6 springs are compressed and this allows the plates to become free, disconnecting power to the transmission.
If this dry clutch becomes wet with oil it may cause the plates to become gummy and the result is excessive drag.
This condition would result in the clutch failing to fully disengage, so when you come up to a stop sign for example and step on the brake with the clutch lever in, the drag prevents the engine from running freely and the result is an engine that may die at the stop sign, But it is not going to freeze up, nor is going to fail to kick over and start right up.
I have no idea of what may be causing the engine not to turn over, other than to be sure it is not because of the clutch being wet with oil. Keep us posted on what you find. This is a real puzzler...........pg
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2006
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From:
RE: 1959 clutch getting wet...
FWIW I did a guys '77 or '78 ( anyway with a gerotor pump) who had a similiar problem, he had the engine rebuilt by one shop and had another remove and install the engine. When he picked it up it started and idled fine, after \\; driving about 15 or 20 miles he said the bike felt sluggish and he thought it might seize up. He brought it back to the shop that installed the engine but didn't get any satisfaction. I met him at a party and he asked me if I'd look at it. Long story short, the shop that installed the engine had reversed the oil lines on the pump, the sending unit light would go out but it wasn't getting any oil. I've worked on 3 or 4 HD's (shovelheads) with the same problem ( one guy had the feed line from the tank going to the vent on the oil pump put 3 qts in it and the next day it'd be on the floor) although this was the only Sportster. Some guys apparently don't take the time to check to be sure they have the oil lines right. I'm not saying this is your problem but it's something you might want to check. One other thing, a Sportster will kick over with the clutch released unlike a big twin which kicks through the clutch, so even if the clutch is oil soaked and slipping it should still kick over. \\;
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3rd Gear
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RE: 1959 clutch getting wet...
ok the bike has sat since saturday i had not touched it ( i was a little mad at it) i went down today (monday) and stood on the kicker( im 285lbs) \\;it moved down slowly, i did it again and it got a little easer, then easer untill it felt like normal, i kicked it i few times and it started right up ran fine for about 2minuts so i put it in first took it up the drive and back down to the garage it was still running fine so i poped the clutch to see if it was slipping it was not ( it actually spun the tire a little) but i stalled it in the process and when i went to start it again the kicker was rock hard and i was in the same boat as i few days ago. i can not figure this one out!
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
RE: 1959 clutch getting wet...
Long story short, the shop that installed the engine had reversed the oil lines on the pump, the sending unit light would go out but it wasn't getting any oil. I've worked on 3 or 4 HD's (shovelheads) with the same problem ( one guy had the feed line from the tank going to the vent on the oil pump put 3 qts in it and the next day it'd be on the floor) although this was the only Sportster.
One other thing, a Sportster will kick over with the clutch released unlike a big twin which kicks through the clutch, so even if the clutch is oil soaked and slipping it should still kick over.
I just had to reply to your post.
On a Sportster it will be absolutely impossible to switch the oil lines!
The inlet line goes into the rear of the pump body.
The 'outlet' line is internal within the pump and goes directly through a passage routing oil to the end of the crank shaft where the flow is split between the c/s and the upper rocker boxes.
On the front of the oil pump sits the sender unit. No oil line comes off this. Only an electrical wire to the oil signal light. When oil pressure is obtained, the sending unit breaks the circuit and the light goes out. There is no oil going to the light if I read your post correctly.
So what you say may relate to a shovelhead, but is impossible to do on an ironhead. A totally different design on the engines.
Do you know why the Sportster can be kicked with the clutch lever pulled in?
Because the kick gear on the back of the clutch basket is directly engaged with the kick gear and then through the primary chain the engine has no choice but to turn over.
The clutch has nothing to do with starting the machine, as you have so indicated. I am only trying to make it clear why the clutch is not involved with the starting issue..........pg
One other thing, a Sportster will kick over with the clutch released unlike a big twin which kicks through the clutch, so even if the clutch is oil soaked and slipping it should still kick over.
I just had to reply to your post.
On a Sportster it will be absolutely impossible to switch the oil lines!
The inlet line goes into the rear of the pump body.
The 'outlet' line is internal within the pump and goes directly through a passage routing oil to the end of the crank shaft where the flow is split between the c/s and the upper rocker boxes.
On the front of the oil pump sits the sender unit. No oil line comes off this. Only an electrical wire to the oil signal light. When oil pressure is obtained, the sending unit breaks the circuit and the light goes out. There is no oil going to the light if I read your post correctly.
So what you say may relate to a shovelhead, but is impossible to do on an ironhead. A totally different design on the engines.
Do you know why the Sportster can be kicked with the clutch lever pulled in?
Because the kick gear on the back of the clutch basket is directly engaged with the kick gear and then through the primary chain the engine has no choice but to turn over.
The clutch has nothing to do with starting the machine, as you have so indicated. I am only trying to make it clear why the clutch is not involved with the starting issue..........pg