Cam chest assembling questions '80 XLS
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Joined: Apr 2009
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From: Tallahassee, Florida
Cam chest assembling questions '80 XLS
Ye of legendary Ironhead lore: Greetings!
In the course of assembling my cam chest I find in my aging Clymer a discussion of the Timing Gearcase Breather Valve. I have an '80 XLS and do not find the hunks to which the Clymer folks refer. Is it possible that this item is found in earlier versions than I have yet not in mine? My cover has some sort of breather affair concentric with the generator shaft, and located in the timing cover . . .
May I pose two other questions:
1) Also referenced in Clymers is a fiber washer that fits on the idler gear shaft between the gear and the cover. Such a washer was neither present at disassembly nor depicted in the Factory parts manual for '80. Advice?
2) When the cam gears are aligned with all the marks correct, is the engine then at TDC on the back cylinder? It's not entirely clear to me where the drive gear (my own term for the small gear on the end of the crankshaft that drives the cams and generator) fits on the crankshaft. I know it goes on the end -- just not sure where it goes in terms of timing.
Thanks. Hope to ride the bike before I see the snow falling on cedars.
In the course of assembling my cam chest I find in my aging Clymer a discussion of the Timing Gearcase Breather Valve. I have an '80 XLS and do not find the hunks to which the Clymer folks refer. Is it possible that this item is found in earlier versions than I have yet not in mine? My cover has some sort of breather affair concentric with the generator shaft, and located in the timing cover . . .
May I pose two other questions:
1) Also referenced in Clymers is a fiber washer that fits on the idler gear shaft between the gear and the cover. Such a washer was neither present at disassembly nor depicted in the Factory parts manual for '80. Advice?
2) When the cam gears are aligned with all the marks correct, is the engine then at TDC on the back cylinder? It's not entirely clear to me where the drive gear (my own term for the small gear on the end of the crankshaft that drives the cams and generator) fits on the crankshaft. I know it goes on the end -- just not sure where it goes in terms of timing.
Thanks. Hope to ride the bike before I see the snow falling on cedars.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
Ye of legendary Ironhead lore: Greetings!
In the course of assembling my cam chest I find in my aging Clymer a discussion of the Timing Gearcase Breather Valve. I have an '80 XLS and do not find the hunks to which the Clymer folks refer. Is it possible that this item is found in earlier versions than I have yet not in mine? My cover has some sort of breather affair concentric with the generator shaft, and located in the timing cover . . .
May I pose two other questions:
1) Also referenced in Clymers is a fiber washer that fits on the idler gear shaft between the gear and the cover. Such a washer was neither present at disassembly nor depicted in the Factory parts manual for '80. Advice?
2) When the cam gears are aligned with all the marks correct, is the engine then at TDC on the back cylinder? It's not entirely clear to me where the drive gear (my own term for the small gear on the end of the crankshaft that drives the cams and generator) fits on the crankshaft. I know it goes on the end -- just not sure where it goes in terms of timing.
Thanks. Hope to ride the bike before I see the snow falling on cedars.
In the course of assembling my cam chest I find in my aging Clymer a discussion of the Timing Gearcase Breather Valve. I have an '80 XLS and do not find the hunks to which the Clymer folks refer. Is it possible that this item is found in earlier versions than I have yet not in mine? My cover has some sort of breather affair concentric with the generator shaft, and located in the timing cover . . .
May I pose two other questions:
1) Also referenced in Clymers is a fiber washer that fits on the idler gear shaft between the gear and the cover. Such a washer was neither present at disassembly nor depicted in the Factory parts manual for '80. Advice?
2) When the cam gears are aligned with all the marks correct, is the engine then at TDC on the back cylinder? It's not entirely clear to me where the drive gear (my own term for the small gear on the end of the crankshaft that drives the cams and generator) fits on the crankshaft. I know it goes on the end -- just not sure where it goes in terms of timing.
Thanks. Hope to ride the bike before I see the snow falling on cedars.
First of all, the breather timing is required only if:
1) You have removed the oil pump.
and/or
2) You have removed the oil spiral drive gear and pinion gear.
If one of these has been removed, then timing is required.
This is done by removing the timing plug in the left crankcase. This is a plug up at the base of the cylinders.
Rotate the engine until a slash mark on the flywheel is centered in the hole. Do not move the engine again until breather timing is complete.
On the right side of the engine the small gear mounted on the crank is called the pinion gear. This gear drives all of the other gears.
Behind the pinion sits the spiral oil breather drive gear. This spiral gear drives the oil pump.
The breather is the rotating tube with the 180° opposed slots in it.
Note: Pay no mind to the ruler. That is there to explain the pinion gear must be mounted exactly 5/16 inch from the face to end of shaft. If you have not removed the pinion then you need not be concerned.
Insert the oil pump into the case, engaging the spiral gears as you go.
There is a small hole in the breather tube. When the pump body sits home against the case and the small hole aligns with the notch in the breather tube bushing, the breather is timed.
If you do not get it right the first try, remove the pump enough to rotate the tube just a little and try again. It is like sticking a distributor down in an automobile engine. The movement of the spiral gears has to be compensated for.
Your other questions:
1) The fiber washer on the idler gear: Yes, it is required. If you do not have one, then buy one.
This washer goes on the outside face of the gear so it sits between the gear and the timing cover bushing.
Install this after the cams are in.
2) Cam timing:
The top dead center has absolutely nothing to do with cam timing.
So just forget about TDC. Not a part of this exercise at all.
Look at the pinion gear face. See the slash mark on the gear?
Rotate the engine to position this mark at approx 11 o'clock position.
Next you will install cam #3 and cam #4, aligning the face marks and having the cam gear plate on both of the cam's backsides. Into the case bearings they go.
Next install cam #1 with the cam back plate on its backside. Make sure the other end of this cam plate can align with the hole where cam #2 is going to go in next.
Cam #2 is the last cam to go into place. Notice it has three timing marks on the face. These three marks must be aligned with the neighbors mark(s) as well as the pinion gear mark.
If you get it all together correctly it will look exactly like the diagram below.
And very last of all, you install the idler gear into the case (it has no marks) and then the felt washer over the end of the shaft. Install the timing cover and then the ignition and you are go to go.
I highly recommend you adjust the valve pushrod clearance on a stone cold engine before you start the engine. And of course you will have to set the ignition timing................ pg
The corrector appears!
No breather timing etc necessary for a 1980. It has the "foofoo" valve at the 11:00 o'clock position of the gearcase cover, generator section. Here it is from the inside ...
Not that it matters, i mention this just to be a little obtuse, but i install #2 cam first, then #1, then #3, #4 last.
Here is the pinion shaft timing mark. There is a mark on the pinion gear that has to line up with this when the pinion gear is installed. If i recall correctly the mark is on the back so you cannot see it once installed. There is a lock washer [bendy ears type] and a nut to hold the pinion gear in place ...
The parts book does not show the fiber washer, but it is necessary. Yes, line up all the marks and you are good to go. Forget about TDC during cam install.
<<
the pinion gear must be mounted exactly 5/16 inch from the face to end of shaft
>>
Not for 1980.
No breather timing etc necessary for a 1980. It has the "foofoo" valve at the 11:00 o'clock position of the gearcase cover, generator section. Here it is from the inside ...
Not that it matters, i mention this just to be a little obtuse, but i install #2 cam first, then #1, then #3, #4 last.
Here is the pinion shaft timing mark. There is a mark on the pinion gear that has to line up with this when the pinion gear is installed. If i recall correctly the mark is on the back so you cannot see it once installed. There is a lock washer [bendy ears type] and a nut to hold the pinion gear in place ...
The parts book does not show the fiber washer, but it is necessary. Yes, line up all the marks and you are good to go. Forget about TDC during cam install.
<<
the pinion gear must be mounted exactly 5/16 inch from the face to end of shaft
>>
Not for 1980.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
Thanks for the correction Mick!
I knew I might be a little off, but I had no idea that I would be that far off.
Did not know about the valve change.
I can see putting #1 and #3 in first, but how do you install #2 and then get #1 and #3 past the big gear on #2? H-mmm.?
On the older Sporty there is no mark on the shaft. Rather the spline that is where the gear mark goes is much larger than the others. So there is only one way to install the pinion.
I swear..... I will zip my big lip if something is newer than 1974. I get into trouble every time I make a comment on a newer bike. I will probably never learn my lesson though.
pg
I knew I might be a little off, but I had no idea that I would be that far off.
Did not know about the valve change.
I can see putting #1 and #3 in first, but how do you install #2 and then get #1 and #3 past the big gear on #2? H-mmm.?
On the older Sporty there is no mark on the shaft. Rather the spline that is where the gear mark goes is much larger than the others. So there is only one way to install the pinion.
I swear..... I will zip my big lip if something is newer than 1974. I get into trouble every time I make a comment on a newer bike. I will probably never learn my lesson though.
pg
I put #2 on first to get the pinion mark in the right spot around 11:00 o'clock; then i kind of uninstall it to get the #1 on.
The problem i do have tho is that the marks between #3 and #4 are almost always off by 1/2 tooth. Once or twice i have had them right on; mostly they are off by the 1/2 tooth. Andrews PB+.
The problem i do have tho is that the marks between #3 and #4 are almost always off by 1/2 tooth. Once or twice i have had them right on; mostly they are off by the 1/2 tooth. Andrews PB+.
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Joined: Apr 2009
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From: Tallahassee, Florida
Pinion, take comfort in that I have a '71 too, and who knows when I shall next see its entrails.
Again, thanks to both of you for addressing my questions thoroughly and on point.
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