mystery with rollers
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Road Master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 775
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From: OC California
mystery with rollers
I have a good one for you guys. So I pull all of the drain plugs. 2 stripped and JB welded into place. No lectures please finances and time required the fast patch many years ago. When I pull the tranny plug there is a roller sitting in it. Not good. So I pull the trans and the mainshaft trust washer looks fine, the race looks fine and I find only 22 rollers (23 with the one in the plug). How in the world did that little sucker get out of there? Is it possible it has been in the plug for years and I have been running with 22 on the shaft? Is there someplace else for that puppy to come from? Oh yeah, I will be tapping oversized and putting in new drain plugs this time.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
RE: mystery with rollers
I'd say you are very lucky that the roller stayed on the bottom of the case instead of deciding to make a trip up between two gears. Would have been quite a different story had that happened.
It takes 23, not 22 rollers. So if the thrust washer was in place, the roller must have dropped out the last time the tranny was put back together and installed. Never been apart, you say? I think it has. I always put a good wipe of grease on all 23 rollers before I run the shaft thru them. It only takes a slight hesitation and pull back on the shaft to dislodge a roller. Use some grease when you do the reinstall. It holds the rollers in place................piniongear
It takes 23, not 22 rollers. So if the thrust washer was in place, the roller must have dropped out the last time the tranny was put back together and installed. Never been apart, you say? I think it has. I always put a good wipe of grease on all 23 rollers before I run the shaft thru them. It only takes a slight hesitation and pull back on the shaft to dislodge a roller. Use some grease when you do the reinstall. It holds the rollers in place................piniongear
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Joined: Jun 2006
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RE: mystery with rollers
Pinion is right, they dont just pop out once together, and no, there is no where else for it may have came from, most likey sloppy install. They do sell these rollers oversize if you need (+.0004,.0008), and usually comes with 25. Also if you pull the trans shaft/gears apart make sure you make a note of where all the shims/washers/gears go or else youll have problems when you put it back together.
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Road Master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 775
Likes: 2
From: OC California
RE: mystery with rollers
That's what I thought Pinion. Someone else put the tranny in last time after he replaced a shifting fork and 2nd gear. I just found it hard to believe I got so many miles on 22 rollers. You bet I am lucky that roller stayed in the plug!! Gotta a question for you. Can the rollers be installed from the outside with the seal and retainer off? By the way the trans looks and feels good so far. I am going to check it out for clearances and replace the thrust washers etc. Thanks.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
RE: mystery with rollers
An honest answer to your question of being able to install the rollers from the outside is: I am not sure. I have always done it from the clutch side. You can pull the countershaft sprocket and seal and see for yourself quickly enough.
The first thing you will see will be a mainshaft roller bearing retaining ring. Behind that is a mainbrg washer. Behind that are the mainroller bearings. 23 in all. If the retaining ring can be removed and the washer will come out that side, you will (may) be able to handle the replacement from the sprocket side. I say MAY, only because with the shaft in place in the hole and the tight clearance you will be dealing with, it may well be a difficult job to get the roller to slide in. I think you will find that the trans. case prevents you from removing the bearings however.
Here is what concerns me a bit about the whole business: Since the roller was dropped by the guy who repaired the tranny before, I have to suspect his ability to give you the job you paid for. If it were me, I would take the transmission out and install all 23 rollers from the clutch side. Then I would carefully check the end play on both the mainshaft and the countershaft. This will require a dial indicator and a bent spoke to jam in the countershaft so that you can shift the shaft back and forth. The end play (on both shafts) needs to be .003 to .009.
If not within this tolerance, pull the door off and replace the VARIABLE THICKNESS washers on the shafts. We have referred to these as thrust washers earlier. They come in thickness of .050, .055, .060, .070 & .075 for both shafts. In addition, there are thinner washers in .020, .030 & .040 thickness for the countershaft.
If you are going to do all this and need some better instruction, send me an email at wb_perry@yahoo.com and I will scan my factory manual covering this and send you a PDF of it.
The first thing you will see will be a mainshaft roller bearing retaining ring. Behind that is a mainbrg washer. Behind that are the mainroller bearings. 23 in all. If the retaining ring can be removed and the washer will come out that side, you will (may) be able to handle the replacement from the sprocket side. I say MAY, only because with the shaft in place in the hole and the tight clearance you will be dealing with, it may well be a difficult job to get the roller to slide in. I think you will find that the trans. case prevents you from removing the bearings however.
Here is what concerns me a bit about the whole business: Since the roller was dropped by the guy who repaired the tranny before, I have to suspect his ability to give you the job you paid for. If it were me, I would take the transmission out and install all 23 rollers from the clutch side. Then I would carefully check the end play on both the mainshaft and the countershaft. This will require a dial indicator and a bent spoke to jam in the countershaft so that you can shift the shaft back and forth. The end play (on both shafts) needs to be .003 to .009.
If not within this tolerance, pull the door off and replace the VARIABLE THICKNESS washers on the shafts. We have referred to these as thrust washers earlier. They come in thickness of .050, .055, .060, .070 & .075 for both shafts. In addition, there are thinner washers in .020, .030 & .040 thickness for the countershaft.
If you are going to do all this and need some better instruction, send me an email at wb_perry@yahoo.com and I will scan my factory manual covering this and send you a PDF of it.
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Road Master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 775
Likes: 2
From: OC California
RE: mystery with rollers
Good advice is always appreciated here man. Thanks. I have a factory manual and am planning on setting the end play as instructed. I am lucky to have Sporty Specialties about 20 minutes away so the different thickness of thrust washers should be easy to get. The guy that did the trans gear before was just helping out and that was about 20 years ago, I don't think I will fault him. You have to give the design some credit for operating so damn long when assembled incorrectly. Gotta love the old iron.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
RE: mystery with rollers
OK Cal,
Checking the end play would make sure things are right. If you are lucky (again) things will be within tolerance and no shims will be required. The fact that second gear was changed is even more reason to check the end play, but again, it has run well for such a long time that you are probably in very good shape. Good luck with it..............piniongear
Checking the end play would make sure things are right. If you are lucky (again) things will be within tolerance and no shims will be required. The fact that second gear was changed is even more reason to check the end play, but again, it has run well for such a long time that you are probably in very good shape. Good luck with it..............piniongear
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Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: Texas
Calwoodbutcher, I am wondering if You were able to slide the rollers in from the drive sprocket side? 3 year old post I realize..thanks!
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