LiveWire Rode a LiveWire
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,451
Likes: 230
From: United States
and we all know it will fall short. Hate to say it but IMO Harley is about done. They have overpriced themselves on a outdated dinosaur that they keep adding more lipstick to that the millenials want nothing to do with. The street was supposed to lure the girls and younger generation only to fall flat on. The EV might be a good seller in the european market where gas is 5 + a gallon. Only problem with that is its going to be a tough sell @ 30k. I have been riding HD for 40 something years and will say that the jap bikes are a far better bike. Handsdown. The dinks at MoCo need to pay attention to form and fuction instead of the lipstick they keep coming up with. The M8 has yet to prive itself although at the end of the day, its still an outdated 88 motor.
Wiz 🍻
Banned
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,036
Likes: 1,013
From: Nunya.
Electric cars have been around for over 100 years
I don't believe Harley ever intended to sell tons of Livewires. It's the first electric product to grab the attention of those into the technology, plus it lets them learn the technology and how to produce it more efficiently. Also the infrastructure does not exist to support a huge amount of electric bikes. As the infrastructure improves I'd expect to see Harley and other manufacturers starting to sell more electric bikes and their cost coming down to something more reasonable
I don't believe Harley ever intended to sell tons of Livewires. It's the first electric product to grab the attention of those into the technology, plus it lets them learn the technology and how to produce it more efficiently. Also the infrastructure does not exist to support a huge amount of electric bikes. As the infrastructure improves I'd expect to see Harley and other manufacturers starting to sell more electric bikes and their cost coming down to something more reasonable
Peace.
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 809
Likes: 570
From: Detroit Metro Area
The cost of ALL EV vehicles is way too high. The EV markup over gasoline or hybrids is making pretty expensive vehicles more expensive.
When Ford did the electric Focus it was $40k while an equivalent gasoline version was about $28k. If we use that as an example ($130k Tesla's have no gasoline comparator) that is 40/28x100%=143%. Now, if we apply this to the FXDR cost at $23k we get $33k for the LW.
I know, absurd. This is the cost of electrification. It also assumes the same profit margin for a gasoline version with the electrified one and they are usually NOT the same. The companies, believe it or not, are price sensitive and are bringing them to market at less profit margin. Hence, the $30k price of the LW.
I was just telling my son who is in Engineering School last night that the issue with EV right now is the same issue as the auto industry was in when it was in it's infancy...all the manufacturers are going after LUXURY high priced vehicles (except maybe Nissan with the Leaf but that is expensive for what you get). What we need is a "Model T" figuratively...a small commuter (nobody will be going cross country in an EV for a long time) with enough range for 2 to 3 days charge for less than $25k. In the bike market we need something similar for less than $20k. Why? EV vehicles will NOT be the main vehicle in the family for a long time.
I work in the Metro Detroit area. Many people here drive their Large SUV's and Pickups to work because they only have 1 vehicle and they tow campers, boats, or other items on the weekends. They find it cheaper to drive these than buy a commuter car. If that electric commuter car is $45-$100k....uh, no.
Another way to look at this is the $8 to $10k premium for an electric motorcycle over a gas one pays for a lifetime amount of gas no matter what the price goes up to. That is also too much for a bike that will only be a bar hopper or ride to the dealer on Saturday for a donut. The CVO Ultra...that gets you NOTICED in a positive way at the gatherings where the LW will not.
Overall the EV market, in total, is still searching for a market and that market is LA where ICE is about to be banned. I believe the rule right now is if an EV is not available you cannot sell anything there. We should be seeing a bunch of options pop up soon and none of them really intended to be sold to people...it is the cost of admission to sell in LA County!
By the way, the BMW Electric Scooter that is now in Gen 2 is providing this service for BMW.
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