M8 problems
Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,674
Likes: 314
From: Ohio
Not sure how you "hate" a machine; unless it's torturing you. I was all excited about this new M8 until I started reading blogs and looking into it more. To me it looks like Harley just trying to wring more and more out of a 100 year old design V twin engine. Then they advertise it as "smoother" "quieter" etc. and it just seems like HD is losing it's identity and soul. And knowing how it's "corporate nature" to cut corners to increase profit (Korean wheel bearings anyone?) I can only imagine the hidden issues in these new, complex machines.
Using oil to cool exhaust ports is one example of some desperate engineering IMHO. Just my observation. Good luck to all who pay the big bucks to get one and I hope they last forever. Don't think they will but hope they do.
Using oil to cool exhaust ports is one example of some desperate engineering IMHO. Just my observation. Good luck to all who pay the big bucks to get one and I hope they last forever. Don't think they will but hope they do.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,902
Likes: 443
From: West Tennessee
Since this thread now only has 320 replies and is not several hundred pages long, looks like Harley did some homework and put out a great new product. Just wish I could currently afford it 
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,925
Likes: 8,027
From: poway
Not sure how you "hate" a machine; unless it's torturing you. I was all excited about this new M8 until I started reading blogs and looking into it more. To me it looks like Harley just trying to wring more and more out of a 100 year old design V twin engine. Then they advertise it as "smoother" "quieter" etc. and it just seems like HD is losing it's identity and soul. And knowing how it's "corporate nature" to cut corners to increase profit (Korean wheel bearings anyone?) I can only imagine the hidden issues in these new, complex machines.
Using oil to cool exhaust ports is one example of some desperate engineering IMHO. Just my observation. Good luck to all who pay the big bucks to get one and I hope they last forever. Don't think they will but hope they do.
Using oil to cool exhaust ports is one example of some desperate engineering IMHO. Just my observation. Good luck to all who pay the big bucks to get one and I hope they last forever. Don't think they will but hope they do.
I would say it's only a 80 year old design. The reason for smoother is not because the old ones vibrated, it more because the newer rubber mount with bigger motors bounce around more. They make more power..
With EPA they need to cool the motor.. I hate radiators but sneaking in an oil cooler is OK..
If you look at what HD did, they figured out that the single cam evo idea wasn't that bad other than having to had fit the gears. I like like pretty much every big twin motor they made. It's and old design.. They change too much and I'm back to probably buying something else.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 6,863
Likes: 3,727
From: St. Charles, MO
Not sure how you "hate" a machine; unless it's torturing you. I was all excited about this new M8 until I started reading blogs and looking into it more. To me it looks like Harley just trying to wring more and more out of a 100 year old design V twin engine. Then they advertise it as "smoother" "quieter" etc. and it just seems like HD is losing it's identity and soul. And knowing how it's "corporate nature" to cut corners to increase profit (Korean wheel bearings anyone?) I can only imagine the hidden issues in these new, complex machines.
Using oil to cool exhaust ports is one example of some desperate engineering IMHO. Just my observation. Good luck to all who pay the big bucks to get one and I hope they last forever. Don't think they will but hope they do.
Using oil to cool exhaust ports is one example of some desperate engineering IMHO. Just my observation. Good luck to all who pay the big bucks to get one and I hope they last forever. Don't think they will but hope they do.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 6,863
Likes: 3,727
From: St. Charles, MO
Welcome to the forums!
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,925
Likes: 8,027
From: poway
As an actual mechanical engineer, degreed and licensed, and as an avid motorhead (why I went into mechanical engineering), I can say without hesitation that I think some of the changes made to the M8 are truly ingenious. Not one thing about the new design seems in the slightest as "desperate". You're certainly entitled to your opinion about the new M8, but your opinion about the engineering is just flat incorrect.
I'd be real interested to hear what impressed you on this bike. While I think the fork damping design is really cool / innovative and the 4 valve head with 2 plugs helps with meeting emissions plus providing the opportunity from more performance, the rest is pretty much a simple progression to improve the product. Things like oil cooled heads and a single counter rotating balancer have been used on other bikes with success.
Since Showa likely did the fork design, I wonder if the damping setup will be carried over to Honda of if they are not already using this stuff. I'd bet the implementation has been patented. I guess it would be interesting to see who owns the patent.
Single cam made more sense to me and I wondered why HD went to 2 on the TC.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 6,863
Likes: 3,727
From: St. Charles, MO
I'd be real interested to hear what impressed you on this bike. While I think the fork damping design is really cool / innovative and the 4 valve head with 2 plugs helps with meeting emissions plus providing the opportunity from more performance, the rest is pretty much a simple progression to improve the product. Things like oil cooled heads and a single counter rotating balancer have been used on other bikes with success.
Since Showa likely did the fork design, I wonder if the damping setup will be carried over to Honda of if they are not already using this stuff. I'd bet the implementation has been patented. I guess it would be interesting to see who owns the patent.
Single cam made more sense to me and I wondered why HD went to 2 on the TC.
Since Showa likely did the fork design, I wonder if the damping setup will be carried over to Honda of if they are not already using this stuff. I'd bet the implementation has been patented. I guess it would be interesting to see who owns the patent.
Single cam made more sense to me and I wondered why HD went to 2 on the TC.
Also, I love the four valve, pushrod design with hydraulic lifter and a forked rocker idea. While not "earth-shattering", it maintains the nostalgic look and feel of an old Harley V-twin while incorporating a maintenance-free 4-valve design.
Finally, just the ability to make a modern engine continue to operate on 100-year old design that produces more power, more torque, less emissions, and can still be the giant jewel on a motorcycle that prides itself on their timeless and traditional lines is quite a feat, IMHO.
ETA: For several years now, I've been sure - positive, almost - that HD was going to have to move to water-cooled to manage the EPA. When the wet-head designs came out, I was even more sure this was the transition step - that the next HD motor was positively, for sure going to have water cooling.
But it didn't. I was impressed.
Last edited by QNman; Jan 11, 2017 at 10:46 AM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,925
Likes: 8,027
From: poway
Frankly, the ability to get a 107-inch motor that is air-cooled to both make better horsepower and torque while meeting EPA emissions requirements is a feat unto itself.
Also, I love the four valve, pushrod design with hydraulic lifter and a forked rocker idea. While not "earth-shattering", it maintains the nostalgic look and feel of an old Harley V-twin while incorporating a maintenance-free 4-valve design.
Finally, just the ability to make a modern engine continue to operate on 100-year old design that produces more power, more torque, less emissions, and can still be the giant jewel on a motorcycle that prides itself on their timeless and traditional lines is quite a feat, IMHO.
Also, I love the four valve, pushrod design with hydraulic lifter and a forked rocker idea. While not "earth-shattering", it maintains the nostalgic look and feel of an old Harley V-twin while incorporating a maintenance-free 4-valve design.
Finally, just the ability to make a modern engine continue to operate on 100-year old design that produces more power, more torque, less emissions, and can still be the giant jewel on a motorcycle that prides itself on their timeless and traditional lines is quite a feat, IMHO.
