2019 Harley Models
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 4,256
Likes: 3,147
From: Texas
It's just repetitive and tedious, that's all. You moved on, we get it, we really don't need to be told over and over.
Yes, that's understood, but Harley doesn't publish crank horsepower figures. So the only way to compare them is apples to apples, dyno to dyno, and -- dyno to dyno, there ain't nearly as huge a difference as that "160" makes it sound. It's marketing.
Are you sure about that? No Harley, anwhere close? From what I see, a BMW K1600 will turn a quarter mile in about 11.5 or so. My Stage II Fat Bob (only Stage II, and even then, not even the Power cam) should do the job in about 11.7. I would think that's more than "anywhere" close. A Stage IV Fat Bob should show the K1600 some taillights. A Stage IV clocks in at about 125 hp, the same as the K1600, but weighs about 100 pounds less. Some guys in Australia put a 124 kit in one and recorded a 10.7 quarter. I chose the Fat Bob for comparison because it is probably Harley's sportiest model and would have the best chance of keeping up with a K1600 in the twisties, although I don't know quite how well it would do.
Here's the thing though: did I miss the ads where Harley calls the Ultra or the Street Glide a "Superbike with saddlebags"? Are they somehow claiming the touring line is a high-performance sportsbike?
I could equally take your comment and modify it to: "I can tell ya, there is no BMW K that will come anywhere close to the performance of a Ninja H2 SX SE." That Ninja will blow the K into the weeds, and do so with an engine that's just over half the size. Supercharged, 172 HP vs 125.9 HP, and almost 200 pounds lighter than the K1600B. And it's at least marketed as a direct competitor to the BMW, so it's, you know, relevant; they're both sport tourers. The Harley touring lineup is not exactly competing for the sportbike market. BMW has that locked up. Again though, at a sales ratio of about 50 to 1, I don't know that Harley's losing any sleep over it.
So -- my question is -- why come in and tout, over and over, that the K1600 is better than the Harleys? It's about as relevant as if I came into the BMW forum and claimed that my F250 was better than the K1600 because it can tow more and you can carry more in its bed than the K1600 can in its saddlebags. They're two wildly different markets.
On that we are agreed. The K1600 is a superb bike, and the level of equipment it comes with at its base configuration of $19,995 is much more lavish than any Harley at anywhere near that price. It's a true sport tourer, with the emphasis on sport, and it has technology and features that make the Harley feel dated. Those things are all true. I just am not sold on the idea that it's actually, really competing for the same buyer.
The 160hp is at the crank, the same way Harley measures torque.
I can tell ya, there is no Harley that will come anywhere close to the performance of a BMW K. Regardless of the stage kit.
Here's the thing though: did I miss the ads where Harley calls the Ultra or the Street Glide a "Superbike with saddlebags"? Are they somehow claiming the touring line is a high-performance sportsbike?
I could equally take your comment and modify it to: "I can tell ya, there is no BMW K that will come anywhere close to the performance of a Ninja H2 SX SE." That Ninja will blow the K into the weeds, and do so with an engine that's just over half the size. Supercharged, 172 HP vs 125.9 HP, and almost 200 pounds lighter than the K1600B. And it's at least marketed as a direct competitor to the BMW, so it's, you know, relevant; they're both sport tourers. The Harley touring lineup is not exactly competing for the sportbike market. BMW has that locked up. Again though, at a sales ratio of about 50 to 1, I don't know that Harley's losing any sleep over it.
So -- my question is -- why come in and tout, over and over, that the K1600 is better than the Harleys? It's about as relevant as if I came into the BMW forum and claimed that my F250 was better than the K1600 because it can tow more and you can carry more in its bed than the K1600 can in its saddlebags. They're two wildly different markets.
my only real point was that I like Harleys and want to see them do well, they have stronger competition than ever.
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 842
Likes: 64
From: N. CA & East TN
Late to this conversation, looking forward to new Harley's. I have a bmw 1600B and two Harley's, does the 1600b outperform with its 160Hp 130TQ, damn straight but what do I ride the most. My Harley's....... they are cheaper to maintain I believe with cheaper services and don't blow through tires, plus to me they are just more fun and what a real bike is to me. I gave up making my Harley's fast after the last two road glides, cheaper to own the 1600b when I want power and comfort features. Nothing beats a Harley though
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,928
Likes: 285
From: Edmond Oklahoma
Late to this conversation, looking forward to new Harley's. I have a bmw 1600B and two Harley's, does the 1600b outperform with its 160Hp 130TQ, damn straight but what do I ride the most. My Harley's....... they are cheaper to maintain I believe with cheaper services and don't blow through tires, plus to me they are just more fun and what a real bike is to me. I gave up making my Harley's fast after the last two road glides, cheaper to own the 1600b when I want power and comfort features. Nothing beats a Harley though
And Honestly, I think the power is there now with the 114. Not the performance of the Sport Touring bikes, but they arent lacking either. Im waiting for better handling and ride. The Indians have it with the mono shock.
Beary
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,878
Likes: 164
From: Northern California
It's just repetitive and tedious, that's all. You moved on, we get it, we really don't need to be told over and over.
Yes, that's understood, but Harley doesn't publish crank horsepower figures. So the only way to compare them is apples to apples, dyno to dyno, and -- dyno to dyno, there ain't nearly as huge a difference as that "160" makes it sound. It's marketing.
Are you sure about that? No Harley, anwhere close? From what I see, a BMW K1600 will turn a quarter mile in about 11.5 or so. My Stage II Fat Bob (only Stage II, and even then, not even the Power cam) should do the job in about 11.7. I would think that's more than "anywhere" close. A Stage IV Fat Bob should show the K1600 some taillights. A Stage IV clocks in at about 125 hp, the same as the K1600, but weighs about 100 pounds less. Some guys in Australia put a 124 kit in one and recorded a 10.7 quarter. I chose the Fat Bob for comparison because it is probably Harley's sportiest model and would have the best chance of keeping up with a K1600 in the twisties, although I don't know quite how well it would do.
Here's the thing though: did I miss the ads where Harley calls the Ultra or the Street Glide a "Superbike with saddlebags"? Are they somehow claiming the touring line is a high-performance sportsbike?
I could equally take your comment and modify it to: "I can tell ya, there is no BMW K that will come anywhere close to the performance of a Ninja H2 SX SE." That Ninja will blow the K into the weeds, and do so with an engine that's just over half the size. Supercharged, 172 HP vs 125.9 HP, and almost 200 pounds lighter than the K1600B. And it's at least marketed as a direct competitor to the BMW, so it's, you know, relevant; they're both sport tourers. The Harley touring lineup is not exactly competing for the sportbike market. BMW has that locked up. Again though, at a sales ratio of about 50 to 1, I don't know that Harley's losing any sleep over it.
So -- my question is -- why come in and tout, over and over, that the K1600 is better than the Harleys? It's about as relevant as if I came into the BMW forum and claimed that my F250 was better than the K1600 because it can tow more and you can carry more in its bed than the K1600 can in its saddlebags. They're two wildly different markets.
On that we are agreed. The K1600 is a superb bike, and the level of equipment it comes with at its base configuration of $19,995 is much more lavish than any Harley at anywhere near that price. It's a true sport tourer, with the emphasis on sport, and it has technology and features that make the Harley feel dated. Those things are all true. I just am not sold on the idea that it's actually, really competing for the same buyer.
Yes, that's understood, but Harley doesn't publish crank horsepower figures. So the only way to compare them is apples to apples, dyno to dyno, and -- dyno to dyno, there ain't nearly as huge a difference as that "160" makes it sound. It's marketing.
Are you sure about that? No Harley, anwhere close? From what I see, a BMW K1600 will turn a quarter mile in about 11.5 or so. My Stage II Fat Bob (only Stage II, and even then, not even the Power cam) should do the job in about 11.7. I would think that's more than "anywhere" close. A Stage IV Fat Bob should show the K1600 some taillights. A Stage IV clocks in at about 125 hp, the same as the K1600, but weighs about 100 pounds less. Some guys in Australia put a 124 kit in one and recorded a 10.7 quarter. I chose the Fat Bob for comparison because it is probably Harley's sportiest model and would have the best chance of keeping up with a K1600 in the twisties, although I don't know quite how well it would do.
Here's the thing though: did I miss the ads where Harley calls the Ultra or the Street Glide a "Superbike with saddlebags"? Are they somehow claiming the touring line is a high-performance sportsbike?
I could equally take your comment and modify it to: "I can tell ya, there is no BMW K that will come anywhere close to the performance of a Ninja H2 SX SE." That Ninja will blow the K into the weeds, and do so with an engine that's just over half the size. Supercharged, 172 HP vs 125.9 HP, and almost 200 pounds lighter than the K1600B. And it's at least marketed as a direct competitor to the BMW, so it's, you know, relevant; they're both sport tourers. The Harley touring lineup is not exactly competing for the sportbike market. BMW has that locked up. Again though, at a sales ratio of about 50 to 1, I don't know that Harley's losing any sleep over it.
So -- my question is -- why come in and tout, over and over, that the K1600 is better than the Harleys? It's about as relevant as if I came into the BMW forum and claimed that my F250 was better than the K1600 because it can tow more and you can carry more in its bed than the K1600 can in its saddlebags. They're two wildly different markets.
On that we are agreed. The K1600 is a superb bike, and the level of equipment it comes with at its base configuration of $19,995 is much more lavish than any Harley at anywhere near that price. It's a true sport tourer, with the emphasis on sport, and it has technology and features that make the Harley feel dated. Those things are all true. I just am not sold on the idea that it's actually, really competing for the same buyer.
I think what we agree on is that a Harley touring bike and the BMW K1600B are different motorcycles designed really for a different purpose by companies with different missions.
I would also agree that they have different target markets. Doesn't make one good and one bad, they are both great companies that have been building motorcycles a long, long time.
the Harley owners/riders that buy a BMW tend to be older, tend to be folks that have owned Harleys for many years and are looking for higher performance, better handling and a smoother ride. Again, that's not putting Harley down, just differences in what they are designed for.
the only manufacturer that is going after Harley toe to toe is Indian. Similar marketing, similar approach including riding groups. Similar style riding attire.
Nobody markets motorcycles better than Harley. They sell a perceived lifestyle. BMW on the other hand doesn't even offer brochures.
guess we agree on more than not big picture. If I could afford it right now I would own a Harley with my BMW, would enjoy a Triumph and Ducati too. All unique riding experiences.
Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 11,471
Likes: 3,572
From: Idaho
I think what we agree on is that a Harley touring bike and the BMW K1600B are different motorcycles designed really for a different purpose by companies with different missions.
I would also agree that they have different target markets. Doesn't make one good and one bad, they are both great companies that have been building motorcycles a long, long time.
the Harley owners/riders that buy a BMW tend to be older, tend to be folks that have owned Harleys for many years and are looking for higher performance, better handling and a smoother ride. Again, that's not putting Harley down, just differences in what they are designed for.
the only manufacturer that is going after Harley toe to toe is Indian. Similar marketing, similar approach including riding groups. Similar style riding attire.
Nobody markets motorcycles better than Harley. They sell a perceived lifestyle. BMW on the other hand doesn't even offer brochures.
guess we agree on more than not big picture. If I could afford it right now I would own a Harley with my BMW, would enjoy a Triumph and Ducati too. All unique riding experiences.
I would also agree that they have different target markets. Doesn't make one good and one bad, they are both great companies that have been building motorcycles a long, long time.
the Harley owners/riders that buy a BMW tend to be older, tend to be folks that have owned Harleys for many years and are looking for higher performance, better handling and a smoother ride. Again, that's not putting Harley down, just differences in what they are designed for.
the only manufacturer that is going after Harley toe to toe is Indian. Similar marketing, similar approach including riding groups. Similar style riding attire.
Nobody markets motorcycles better than Harley. They sell a perceived lifestyle. BMW on the other hand doesn't even offer brochures.
guess we agree on more than not big picture. If I could afford it right now I would own a Harley with my BMW, would enjoy a Triumph and Ducati too. All unique riding experiences.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 4,256
Likes: 3,147
From: Texas
Sorry for coming on so strong at the outset.
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Road Master
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 894
Likes: 224
From: Lynden, WA
Agreed entirely. If funds were unlimited, in addition to my Harley I'd have exactly those: a K1600B, a Triumph Tiger, and a Ducati, probably the Panigale. And a Livewire. And a Grom or a Benelli TNT135 for the hell of it. All magnificent, all different.
Sorry for coming on so strong at the outset.
Sorry for coming on so strong at the outset.
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 858
Likes: 140
From: USA
HD will never ever design/produce/sell anything that even remotely comes close to a Toyota Prius. I own one. A 2013. 48 MPG for 176,000 miles and I've done nothing but change the oil in it every 10K. Those dip ***** can't even produce a reliable twin cylinder air cooled irrigation pump that will last 30K.