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2017 SG freedom performance 2 into 1. Big bore a waste?
Hi all!
Long time lurker first time poster. So, I have used search about this and couldnt find anything. I have a 17 street glide special where the previous owner has done lots of work to it, one of which being the freedom performance 2 into 1 turn out exhaust. I love the way the bike looks, but want to do a big bore. When I talked to a VERY popular big bore kit/tuning company on this forum, they suggested that it would be a complete wast of money to do it, and regardless of what cam I put in, below 3300 rpms I will LOSE 30-40 tq because of the freedom performance exhaust. Because of the build, Im kinda locked in to that exhaust. I talked to bob woods about it and he thought it sounded ridiculous. Also, he has on his site a 114 screaming eagle kit dynod with a 408 cam and SAME EXACT EXHAUST (I personally talked to the tuner because I am friends with the people at that dealership) that is making 128/128 without the drop off this other well respected big bore kit maker was speaking of. So now I am confused. I want to go 120, but if I am going to lose that much torque, i dont want to flush money down the toilet, especially since it will be a pricier build. Is the kit maker right? Am I goin to lose that much torque down low because of the exhaust? Is that kit maker wrong? Why does the screaming eagle kit not suffer from this problem with the same exhaust?
My bike
Also, friends of mine at a different dealership are willing to do the screaming eagle kit stage 4 with woods 408 cam and different rods for $3990 out the door including tax, which is tempting because of the price difference between this kit manufacturer. Do you all have any thoughts or opinions? Thanks again!
Last edited by Doctor_Yes; Jul 30, 2018 at 02:23 PM.
Reason: Screwed up title
Hi all!
Long time lurker first time poster. So, I have used search about this and couldnt find anything. I have a 17 street glide special where the previous owner has done lots of work to it, one of which being the freedom performance 2 into 1 turn out exhaust. I love the way the bike looks, but want to do a big bore. When I talked to a VERY popular big bore kit/tuning company on this forum, they suggested that it would be a complete wast of money to do it, and regardless of what cam I put in, below 3300 rpms I will LOSE 30-40 tq because of the freedom performance exhaust. Because of the build, Im kinda locked in to that exhaust. I talked to bob woods about it and he thought it sounded ridiculous. Also, he has on his site a 114 screaming eagle kit dynod with a 408 cam and SAME EXACT EXHAUST (I personally talked to the tuner because I am friends with the people at that dealership) that is making 128/128 without the drop off this other well respected big bore kit maker was speaking of. So now I am confused. I want to go 120, but if I am going to lose that much torque, i dont want to flush money down the toilet, especially since it will be a pricier build. Is the kit maker right? Am I goin to lose that much torque down low because of the exhaust? Is that kit maker wrong? Why does the screaming eagle kit not suffer from this problem with the same exhaust?
My bike
Also, friends of mine at a different dealership are willing to do the screaming eagle kit stage 4 with woods 408 cam and different rods for $3990 out the door including tax, which is tempting because of the price difference between this kit manufacturer. Do you all have any thoughts or opinions? Thanks again!
First off, nice looking bike.
I think there are still quite a few people that want to equate an M8 with a TwinCam and they are not the same. What worked on the TwinCam is not necessarily a prescription for success on the M8. The dyno sheet for the 114" with the 408 Wood cam shows decent low end torque, about what you would expect with a mid range cam.
Here is another example of an exhaust that is not supposed to work well for torque, the CMP Short Dump.
Yet when coupled with an M8 Andrews cam that is suppose to make torque it did just that.
Not only did it make really good torque, but is made it quickly.
So the exhaust you have won't necessarily kill the low end torque on a 120" big bore kit. If you couple it with a cam that is all about horse power then yes, the low end torque will probably suffer, but there are lots of cams available that will give good horse power without destroying the torque, so pick one of those cams, like the TTS 200, for your big bore and you should be just fine.
Thanks for the reply! So aside from the 408, can you think of any other cams that would be good? Also, the 120 build is going to be probably 800-1000 more than the 114 kit. At $3999 out the door including tax for build and tune, should I even worry about going 120?
Thanks for the reply! So aside from the 408, can you think of any other cams that would be good? Also, the 120 build is going to be probably 800-1000 more than the 114 kit. At $3999 out the door including tax for build and tune, should I even worry about going 120?
Like I said, the TTS 200 is a good cam for a 120" with at least 11:1 compression. Four grand for a 120" kit? What is included? Is that for cam, cylinders, pistons, throttle body, labor and tuning? You can go 117" with just an over bore of the stock 107" cylinders. Going 120" you have to use the 114" cylinders, so there's an extra expense. More inches usually means more power. If the 114" kit is the Screamin' Eagle kit I would stay away from it. Get somebody that knows what they are doing to bore the cylinders and fit the pistons. Harley has a bad reputation on the bore of their SE cylinders. Give Patrick Racing in Prescott, AZ. a call. (928) 277-8281. He has what it takes to bore cylinders true. If you want to save some down time buy a set of M8 cylinders on Ebay. This set is $99 & $47 shipping: https://www.ebay.com/itm/HARLEY-DAVI...from=R40&rt=nc
There were several other sets for less than $200.
The 3990 was for the screaming eagle 114 kit with heads, tb, clutch, woods 408 cam, injectors, and tune with my power vision tuner. You say I should stay away at 3990? Its literally the identical build for the woods dyno you posted. For the 120, I was wanting to go with FM and would cost around 1000 more, but just got off the phone with them and said that with my pipe it is going to work like crap with any of their kits, and if I were to drive up there, they wouldnt even do the install.
Last edited by Doctor_Yes; Jul 30, 2018 at 04:19 PM.
Reason: Clarification
The 3990 was for the screaming eagle 114 kit with heads, tb, clutch, woods 408 cam, injectors, and tune with my power vision tuner. You say I should stay away at 3990? Its literally the identical build for the woods dyno you posted. For the 120, I was wanting to go with FM and would cost around 1000 more, but just got off the phone with them and said that with my pipe it is going to work like crap with any of their kits, and if I were to drive up there, they wouldnt even do the install.
So you're talking about a Stage IV kit. You should be able to have the cylinders bored to 120" with the pistons for a little more than $600. I think Patrick Racing said $625, but you would have to figure shipping also. You want someone that is going to use torque plates and has CNC boring machine. Other than that, have the valve seats in the heads checked, the SE heads have had problems with those.
You can do what you want to as far as cams go, here is a 117" with the 200 set up almost the way yours would be except for the exhaust. If anything, looking at the graph of the 114" from the Wood site, it may well develop more torque sooner.
Thank you so much for all of your help! I think I am actually going to go with that cam you suggested, and I have found someone selling jugs bored to 117 to the spec and manner you described for a good price. Can you suggest any pistons that would work well for this set up that wont break the bank?
Thank you so much for all of your help! I think I am actually going to go with that cam you suggested, and I have found someone selling jugs bored to 117 to the spec and manner you described for a good price. Can you suggest any pistons that would work well for this set up that wont break the bank?
OK, like I said you want the jugs bored to fit the pistons. One of the reasons I don't like the SE kits is they don't do this. 107 jugs can be bored to 117. CP Carrillo is the pistons most are using. So if the jugs you are talking about are SE jugs that are for the 117 big bore or that came off a 117 CVO you would want to have them bored out to fit the 120 pistons. If the cylinders you have found are just 107 cylinders then the person boring them should get the pistons and bore the jugs to fit the pistons. On the 117 the CP pistons will give you 10.75:1 compression if you use a .045 thick head gasket and 11.1:1 compression with a .030 head gasket. What I am going to do later, probably during the winter is the 10.75:1 compression 117 with stock heads that have had the valve seats checked and had a good valve job, with the TTS 150 cam and a HorsePower Inc. 62mm throttle body with 5.5 injectors. Since I want 2:1:2 pipes I will probably go with the Fullsac X pipe. This combination should give a lot of very low end torque and still produce decent hp in the 5000 to 5500 range.
The 2 into 1 systems usually develop more early torque than any other system what would be the issue with the Freedoms ?
Are they too restrictive for a big bore ?
I've never seen or heard a set of these before.
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2017 SG freedom performance 2 into 1. Big bore a waste?
