Sumping in un-modfied HD117CI CVO
Thread Starter
|
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 69
Likes: 4
From: East, Texas
Max,
(21K miles) On this 117 bike the head pipe, air cleaner, and efi were all untouched, factory items. No internal work.
(9K miles) On my 117 bike it had all SE parts installed by the dealer. Stock air cleaner, Harley high flow pipes, street canon mufflers, street tuner, and smart tuner, no internal work.
(2K miles) On the earlier repair of this 117, it had the stock air cleaner, after market header, and mufflers, with a tuner, installed by the original Harley dealer, no internal work..
(Staged 114) It had the Harley staged upgrade kit, the 2020 oil pump, and only about 1000 miles since the modification. Not sure about the head pipe and air cleaner since they were removed when I saw the bike.
In my case I noticed the problem early on, however, when I took it back to the dealer it would not sump. It was only after a number of sumping episodes that the dealer checked further.
On the 2000 mile bike he noticed shortly after purchasing the bike. He had extreme sumping with a complete engine change.
On the staged 114 he started to hear unusual engine sounds within 1000 miles, and trailered the bike back to the shop.
It was only on the 21000 mile bike that he had a delay in realising that there was an issue. He may have had the mild type of sumping.
I believe that the only effective way to get to the bottom of the problem is to conduct a thorough forensic analysis of the engine's individual components. I am telling what I saw, experienced, and was told by the owners and technicians. I am sharing it here so that others can be informed if they run into the same issues.
My bike is back up and running. It was repaired under warranty to the original stock configuration as before the problem occurred. I don't really have the time to hang out here. Hopefully this has been beneficial to others.
See you on the road.
(21K miles) On this 117 bike the head pipe, air cleaner, and efi were all untouched, factory items. No internal work.
(9K miles) On my 117 bike it had all SE parts installed by the dealer. Stock air cleaner, Harley high flow pipes, street canon mufflers, street tuner, and smart tuner, no internal work.
(2K miles) On the earlier repair of this 117, it had the stock air cleaner, after market header, and mufflers, with a tuner, installed by the original Harley dealer, no internal work..
(Staged 114) It had the Harley staged upgrade kit, the 2020 oil pump, and only about 1000 miles since the modification. Not sure about the head pipe and air cleaner since they were removed when I saw the bike.
In my case I noticed the problem early on, however, when I took it back to the dealer it would not sump. It was only after a number of sumping episodes that the dealer checked further.
On the 2000 mile bike he noticed shortly after purchasing the bike. He had extreme sumping with a complete engine change.
On the staged 114 he started to hear unusual engine sounds within 1000 miles, and trailered the bike back to the shop.
It was only on the 21000 mile bike that he had a delay in realising that there was an issue. He may have had the mild type of sumping.
I believe that the only effective way to get to the bottom of the problem is to conduct a thorough forensic analysis of the engine's individual components. I am telling what I saw, experienced, and was told by the owners and technicians. I am sharing it here so that others can be informed if they run into the same issues.
My bike is back up and running. It was repaired under warranty to the original stock configuration as before the problem occurred. I don't really have the time to hang out here. Hopefully this has been beneficial to others.
See you on the road.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,814
Likes: 5,120
From: SW Ohio
Burning witches who have the audacity to post their problems on the internet doesn't change whatever it is that causes these kinds of failures to happen. It also doesn't make it any less likely to happen to you.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,143
Likes: 6,165
From: SE Michigan
Or any more likely.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,052
Likes: 341
From: Virginia Beach
A few questions:
- By chance did the mechanics reference if the piston oil jets were leaking?
- Is the shop that did the install of the original 2020 oil pump upgrade, the same one doing the teardown?
- Do you know for a fact that the engine with the 2020 8-lobe oil pump that failed was due to sumping and not some other cause?
- If it failed from sumping, they should have a record of the ounces of oil they drained from the Crank Position Sensor before they started the tear down.
- Can you ask how much oil was in the crankcase when they drained it?
- By chance did the mechanics reference if the piston oil jets were leaking?
- Is the shop that did the install of the original 2020 oil pump upgrade, the same one doing the teardown?
- Do you know for a fact that the engine with the 2020 8-lobe oil pump that failed was due to sumping and not some other cause?
- If it failed from sumping, they should have a record of the ounces of oil they drained from the Crank Position Sensor before they started the tear down.
- Can you ask how much oil was in the crankcase when they drained it?
Can you make the FUELMOTO 128 sump? Have you tried to make it sump?
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,382
Likes: 404
From: Illinois
Cruiser1: Just want to let you know that you are by far not the first here to bring the issue to everyone's attention and get roasted for it. The mentality often seems to be that if someone isn't experiencing an issue, the issue doesn't exist.
I documented a case of my 2018 sumping after a 120 build. I documented my solution to that problem and got a lot of crap for it. So much so that I'm really not inclined to discuss it much or offer advice on mechanical issues on this forum, and I assure you I am not the only one that has backed off posting.
Unfortunately we all loose when knowledgeable people no longer post to help others. That's what the forum was supposed to be about. I have seen a big drop in experienced posters both here and on other forums over this kind of thing. Some of the posters are experienced engine builders and shop owners who no longer want to deal with the negativity. In the early 2000s there was so much more information being shared than today.
Not good for anyone.
I documented a case of my 2018 sumping after a 120 build. I documented my solution to that problem and got a lot of crap for it. So much so that I'm really not inclined to discuss it much or offer advice on mechanical issues on this forum, and I assure you I am not the only one that has backed off posting.
Unfortunately we all loose when knowledgeable people no longer post to help others. That's what the forum was supposed to be about. I have seen a big drop in experienced posters both here and on other forums over this kind of thing. Some of the posters are experienced engine builders and shop owners who no longer want to deal with the negativity. In the early 2000s there was so much more information being shared than today.
Not good for anyone.
Tourer
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 449
Likes: 76
From: Oz
The owners of this forum are aware of this issue. They are working to address the issue. Hang in there, this is a great place for knowledge from a key word, ALL. Keeping your bike STOCK, as some would recommend, isn't the only answer.
Last edited by RinTin; Mar 9, 2020 at 03:15 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,859
Likes: 7,980
From: poway
Max,
(21K miles) On this 117 bike the head pipe, air cleaner, and efi were all untouched, factory items. No internal work.
(9K miles) On my 117 bike it had all SE parts installed by the dealer. Stock air cleaner, Harley high flow pipes, street canon mufflers, street tuner, and smart tuner, no internal work.
(2K miles) On the earlier repair of this 117, it had the stock air cleaner, after market header, and mufflers, with a tuner, installed by the original Harley dealer, no internal work..
(Staged 114) It had the Harley staged upgrade kit, the 2020 oil pump, and only about 1000 miles since the modification. Not sure about the head pipe and air cleaner since they were removed when I saw the bike.
In my case I noticed the problem early on, however, when I took it back to the dealer it would not sump. It was only after a number of sumping episodes that the dealer checked further.
On the 2000 mile bike he noticed shortly after purchasing the bike. He had extreme sumping with a complete engine change.
On the staged 114 he started to hear unusual engine sounds within 1000 miles, and trailered the bike back to the shop.
It was only on the 21000 mile bike that he had a delay in realising that there was an issue. He may have had the mild type of sumping.
I believe that the only effective way to get to the bottom of the problem is to conduct a thorough forensic analysis of the engine's individual components. I am telling what I saw, experienced, and was told by the owners and technicians. I am sharing it here so that others can be informed if they run into the same issues.
My bike is back up and running. It was repaired under warranty to the original stock configuration as before the problem occurred. I don't really have the time to hang out here. Hopefully this has been beneficial to others.
See you on the road.
(21K miles) On this 117 bike the head pipe, air cleaner, and efi were all untouched, factory items. No internal work.
(9K miles) On my 117 bike it had all SE parts installed by the dealer. Stock air cleaner, Harley high flow pipes, street canon mufflers, street tuner, and smart tuner, no internal work.
(2K miles) On the earlier repair of this 117, it had the stock air cleaner, after market header, and mufflers, with a tuner, installed by the original Harley dealer, no internal work..
(Staged 114) It had the Harley staged upgrade kit, the 2020 oil pump, and only about 1000 miles since the modification. Not sure about the head pipe and air cleaner since they were removed when I saw the bike.
In my case I noticed the problem early on, however, when I took it back to the dealer it would not sump. It was only after a number of sumping episodes that the dealer checked further.
On the 2000 mile bike he noticed shortly after purchasing the bike. He had extreme sumping with a complete engine change.
On the staged 114 he started to hear unusual engine sounds within 1000 miles, and trailered the bike back to the shop.
It was only on the 21000 mile bike that he had a delay in realising that there was an issue. He may have had the mild type of sumping.
I believe that the only effective way to get to the bottom of the problem is to conduct a thorough forensic analysis of the engine's individual components. I am telling what I saw, experienced, and was told by the owners and technicians. I am sharing it here so that others can be informed if they run into the same issues.
My bike is back up and running. It was repaired under warranty to the original stock configuration as before the problem occurred. I don't really have the time to hang out here. Hopefully this has been beneficial to others.
See you on the road.
Ok so you got 2 that sumped (one 114 with the 8 lobe pump) and your stage 1,117 that had 2 tuners.
The other one likely sumped after scoring the pistons.
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
I’ll find out over the coming year. Lots of big trips this year. Probably 15-20,000 miles. 500 miles so far and the engine is nothing but ripping grins!
Last edited by Heatwave; Mar 9, 2020 at 07:32 PM.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Southpaw Super Glide: A Left-Hand-Drive 1979 Harley FXE Built to Fit the Rider
Verdad Gallardo
Tourer
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 449
Likes: 76
From: Oz
Well I'll be interest to hear if that new pump meets your riding. If so, I think we are all good to go! Keep us posted...
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
soldierbot
General Harley Davidson Chat
129
Feb 10, 2020 07:51 PM
Readyfreddy77
General Harley Davidson Chat
25
Jul 18, 2010 08:14 AM