Weezl's Build Thread
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Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 133
Likes: 3
From: Coquitlam B.C.
Weezl- Also keep in mind that you are still running the stock timing maps, which are VERY tame in the off-the-line and roll-on areas, it is making your bike a bit sluggish for epa and "new rider" safety margin (so new riders don't over lug the motor when new and F something up). I'm not sure to what extent the FP3 can help you with timing optimization, but you may want to PM RockerB since he has the most experience with it. If you had the PV I could just send you a tuned map to upload and done. but I totally get it with the FP3 looking user-friendly vs the powervision's learning curve. I can always shoot you a picture of the timing maps if it helps with the FP3. I'm not familiar with it.
I think it only optimizes fueling and not timing- which is common for all tuning products. If it does optimize timing (e.g. adding more advance as well as trimming timing for detected knock), let us know. As far as I know, no tuning product on the market can add timing advance automatically and it must be manually adjusted based on logged ride data and tweaking.
the manually adjustable items on the fp3 are:
under air and fuel:
front cylinder VE
rear cylinder VE
decel pop
front charge dilution effect
rear charge dilution effect
air fuel ratio
acceleration enrichment
deceleration enrichment
closed loop range
closed loop min activation temp
closed loop deactiviation temp
MAP load normalization
camshafts
adaptive control min temperature
spark
front cylinder spark adv
rear cyl sp adv
spark adjust by engine temp
spark adjust by air temp
spark adjust by head temp
adaptive knock retard
knock control min actiation temp
knocl control deactivation temp
idle spark control gain
idle spark control max
front closed throttle spark
rear closed throttle spark
closed throttle spark max TPS
performance enrichment
PE air-fuel ratio
PE spark
PE disable rpm
PE enable RPM
PE disable TPS
PE enable TPS
startup/idle]
cranking fuel
warmup enrichment
IAC crank steps vs temp
IAC crank steps to run
IAC warmup
idle rpm
active exhaust
(off, active, full open, custom)
general
rev limit
injector size
mpg adjustment
engine displacement
gear ratios
eitms off temperature
eitms on temperature
speedometer calibration (uses phone GPS to program correct setting, cool feature)
system seitches
ACR
jiffy stant
active intake
active exhaust
some of those have sub options, some bring up a giant graph with like 200 variable fields. I'm playing with the rule of "if i don't know what it is, don't touch it!"
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
ok that is all cool. so what you could do is this-
download the powervision software and install it on your pc. then open any of the tune map files, you'll see a column on the left with the same things as you listed above. for spark advance front / rear, you would look at the tables in the powervision tune file, and you can adjust yours to match as needed. I did that a lot back in the beginning - look through tune maps of tunes that I know ran well on other bikes with similar build to mine. then ended up learning how delphi works in general, riding and tweaking my own tunes. if you install the powervision software shoot me pm with your email and I'll send you my tune file to look at. I can also explain to you what areas of the spark map does what in regards to decel, idle, off the line, roll on, WOT, and cruise.
But for now just run one of the tune files, get VE's dialed in to your motor best you can with auto tune, and if you are able, exclude the 30kpa and below VEs from auto tuning. all it will do is lean them out and you'll end up with decel pop.
download the powervision software and install it on your pc. then open any of the tune map files, you'll see a column on the left with the same things as you listed above. for spark advance front / rear, you would look at the tables in the powervision tune file, and you can adjust yours to match as needed. I did that a lot back in the beginning - look through tune maps of tunes that I know ran well on other bikes with similar build to mine. then ended up learning how delphi works in general, riding and tweaking my own tunes. if you install the powervision software shoot me pm with your email and I'll send you my tune file to look at. I can also explain to you what areas of the spark map does what in regards to decel, idle, off the line, roll on, WOT, and cruise.
But for now just run one of the tune files, get VE's dialed in to your motor best you can with auto tune, and if you are able, exclude the 30kpa and below VEs from auto tuning. all it will do is lean them out and you'll end up with decel pop.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
also a really good guide to read, google it - is the "TTS MasterTune Tuning Guide". it gives a very good breakdown of what some of the tables do and general info on tuning principals. all of these tuning products use the same tables as you listed above, just the interfaces / devices are different.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 133
Likes: 3
From: Coquitlam B.C.
You guys rock!
I was trying to read that tts tubing guide, but it's so damn dry I fall asleep within 1 page...
I'll try the auto tune first and see what the bike does
Actually on that topic, la, can you check the spark advance for a specific rpm and tps, that would be changed for an aggressive tune, so I have a point of reference as to what will give me better acceleration, and I can see if my fp3 tune is closer to stock or such?
I was trying to read that tts tubing guide, but it's so damn dry I fall asleep within 1 page...
I'll try the auto tune first and see what the bike does
Actually on that topic, la, can you check the spark advance for a specific rpm and tps, that would be changed for an aggressive tune, so I have a point of reference as to what will give me better acceleration, and I can see if my fp3 tune is closer to stock or such?
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,626
Likes: 310
From: "Old Hangtown" Placerville Ca.
weezl, you might find that the base map runs better before, then after AutoTune!! The FP3 maps for V&H pipes are usually right on...before I changed cams I ran AutoTune several times, but always went back to the base map, it just ran a little better!! After the cam change, I ran a long AutoTune session concentrating on really filling as many off the boxes on the "progress tracker grid" as possible, it's takes a while, and the right roads to fill the 80 and 100% throttle position boxes, it takes several times hitting the same rpm and TP for the AutoTune to learn. I used back country roads and early morning freeway on-ramps, taking it to, or close to the rev limiter through the gears, several times....and even after doing this, the improvement is only minor, it is a little better, but the base map with the cams edited in was already great!! I think AutoTune makes a more noticeable improvement when used on maps for non V&H pipes, that might not start out as good... but hey, every bikes different, try it, you can always flash back if it doesn't run the same or better... Have fun!!!
Last edited by Rocker B; Apr 16, 2016 at 01:55 AM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
You guys rock!
I was trying to read that tts tubing guide, but it's so damn dry I fall asleep within 1 page...
I'll try the auto tune first and see what the bike does
Actually on that topic, la, can you check the spark advance for a specific rpm and tps, that would be changed for an aggressive tune, so I have a point of reference as to what will give me better acceleration, and I can see if my fp3 tune is closer to stock or such?
I was trying to read that tts tubing guide, but it's so damn dry I fall asleep within 1 page...
I'll try the auto tune first and see what the bike does
Actually on that topic, la, can you check the spark advance for a specific rpm and tps, that would be changed for an aggressive tune, so I have a point of reference as to what will give me better acceleration, and I can see if my fp3 tune is closer to stock or such?
Also download and install the powervision software, its free and simple to install. pm me your email, I'll send you my tune map. it's very easy to look at the spark timing tables and cross reference them with yours and I'll help you make sense of it. For the TTS guide- don't try to read the whole thing- skip to sections of interest, for example, timing tables or VE tables. It's easier to digest when bitten off in smaller bites
I'm assuming of course the FP3 shows the actual timing tables on a big grid map of actual advance numbers. Rocker- does it do that or is it just a plus / minus type of setup similar to the SE tuner?
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,626
Likes: 310
From: "Old Hangtown" Placerville Ca.
Ya Dog you assumed correct... a big grid map with the #'s... "bigger" on my Ipad than my phone..LOL
Last edited by Rocker B; Apr 16, 2016 at 02:16 AM.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
Weezl- so now that I know your product shows the actual advance table numbers, I can help you mess with timing later. but doing it now would be no good and I'd only confuse things. need you to run the base map, try it out and then get a feel for what could be better. based on that we can tweak certain areas of the maps as needed.
also too with a richer fuel map, some areas will make more power with less timing advance versus more advance. this is because richer fuel does not need as much advance timing to fully burn. but hopefully not confusing, other areas will like more advance with more fuel. Lean fuel needs more advance in some areas, less in others. Delphi tuning can bake your mind until you eventually get a handle on it.
also too with a richer fuel map, some areas will make more power with less timing advance versus more advance. this is because richer fuel does not need as much advance timing to fully burn. but hopefully not confusing, other areas will like more advance with more fuel. Lean fuel needs more advance in some areas, less in others. Delphi tuning can bake your mind until you eventually get a handle on it.