Hey All,
Had the 95 FXSTC sitting for two weeks without the battery tender. Had a warm Nov. morning for the mid west and wheeled the bike out.
When I hit the start button, I got nothing. Hit again...nothing. not even a sound. on the third try, it turned over and fired right up as normal.
Ive noticed before, even in summer, the button (I would guess) did nothing...then fire on a second try.
What should I look at first? contact in the start button itself? I didnt get the impression the battery was weak, but as I said it wasnt on the Tender.
A relay going bad? ....first time it took three tries....

 

Maybe it was just surprised that you wanted to ride.


I'd just see if it did it anymore.
Then shoot the trouble if needed.

 

I have 2 H-D and every now and then they both do that , get a extra start button to have on hand , seams like they only do it 1st time of a day

 

You could also get a manual push-button starter solenoid switch.
If needed, just push in the switch to start the bike, provided the bike is in the start mode.
I have one for both bikes.

 

Im not crafty enough to add a manual switch, so maybe Ill start with the stock replace on the throttle first. Im afraid if I add something now, it will add another variable to the trouble shoot (if it doesnt work...)

Did a long two weeks of some long shifts, so I think we were both surprised I was ready to ride in 45deg weather!

 

Putting the manual push button on the solenoid is about 10 times easier than changing out the switch on the handlebars.

 

Start at the obvious. The connections at the battery. Then the $12.00 relay since it easy. The push button is low amp for the relay. However, they catch weather if bike is left out.. A bike that old could be corrision in the actual terminal clamps on the cable. Check voltage at the battery and the to the cable clamp with a DC volt/resistance meter.
Fix it correctly. No jury rigging.

Rev. 08-08-16
Some electrical 101 and a little more..

Remember, the best made brand new battery that has been on a maintenance charger for 3 days that has a loose or bad connection is no better then a boat anchor with a loose rope. The connection can get loose after one ride if the battery is not anchored and the wires are short and get tugged in a direction that can unscrew the bolts.

After a good 24+ hour maintenance low amperage charge, with the charge light in the solid green and the battery has set about 24 hours off charge, voltage should be about 12.8 volts.
12.8 = full charged
12.6 = 75% charged
12.3 = 50% charged (Lot of new modern cars with system protection will not even click at this point but will have good headlight beams showing)
12.0 =25% charged

Always check both the terminals at the battery lead and also at the terminal on the wire. That helps to verify connection. With a DC volt meter (one that has a feature to lock high and low reading is best) hooked across the battery terminals and reading 12.8 or so, crank motor and while its cranking it should not drop below about 9.6 volts and as soon as it starts and throttled up to 2000 rpm, voltage should read around 14.8 volts. The 2000 rpm is the bench mark standard. Ignore idle output. Ignore output above 2000rpm unless it exceeds 14.9 volts. That is a sure indication that regulator is bad.

The crank check shows a rough check of the reserve amperage capacity of the battery while cranking with a 150-200 amp load on it. The 14.8 shows a good alternator and if you leave it on a while as the regulatory will drop the voltage a little showing itself working. However, with the lights and stuff always on, it will never drop back much. If you have a lot of options, most modern bikes will not show 14.8 charging volts at idle but stock newer bikes will be close. Older bikes with lower amperage output not so much. However, 2000 rpm is the bench mark for the standard 14.8 volts.

If you think battery is good and something is draining it sitting, now would be a good time to check for drain problems. Go to Harbor Freight and get you a AC/DC meter for under $25 or so. http://www.harborfreight.com/ac-dc-d...ter-37772.html Make sure it has DC amps draw, DC voltage, resistance and AC voltage. Key off. Remove the negative cable off the battery. Set meter on DC amps. Hook the meter lead to cable and the other to battery. !!Key off..do not turn on!! Ignore that first draw as the alarm trims back and stuff charges for 1 minute. Now,how many milliamps (mA) is it drawing? It should be no more then 6 mA which is the ECM (1), speedometer (1), tac,TSSM (1),HFSM (1) and voltage regulator (1)

When a battery wears out, a good charge will show fairly good voltage, but the battery can still have very low amperage capacity which will show in the crude crank test above, but it really should be checked after a good charge by removing it from bike and getting a free check at a place like AutoZone that has a fancy load meter check that gives you a print out of the battery health. Battery MUST BE CHARGED to check it. Be sure they set their meter to correct cold cranking amperage stated on the battery. Never charge the AGM absorbed glass mat battery with a regular car battery charger unless it is a newer one that says safe with this type of battery. Also, by taking battery out you now know you have good connections. Vibration tends to loosen the connections or a little corrosion will prevent charging or cause starting problems. Be forwarned, these checks quite often are incorrect due to the low amperage of these small batteries and junk checking equipment. If bike is charging , no load on battery when key is off and you are still having problems…REPLACE THE BATTERY. If battery is more then 3-4 years old.. REPLACE THE BATTERY.

Using the maintenance charger can get more years from a battery but be careful here. You do not want the last start 5 miles from home. If it still grunts when you first hit starter or kicks back with a bang, replace it. After a few years, charge and pull battery and have it checked for cold cranking amperage ever spring. Even then, if it grunts most ever start, I would replace it. Most battery checkers at AutoZone and places like that do not do really well on the low amperage setting on small batteries. Not sure why but they tend to say they are OK when they are weak. If they have one that fits your bike, Wal-Mart's AGM absorbed glass mat battery is just as good as any for one third to half the money of a Harley Battery. Do not put an old fashion one with vent tubes on a modern TC Harley. Do not jump, push start or run bike with a half dead battery except in a real emergency. If a bike battery is down and you jump it, throwing all that amps to it from a big car battery especially one that is running can wreck a bike regulator or charging system. Charging a worn out battery can kill alternator stator or the voltage regulator or both. Probably ending in a big dollar repair in parts alone.

It is also a good idea to always check your battery at 2000 RPM with your meter set to AC. If by chance, the regulator goes bad, sometimes it will let AC come thru. That is a sure sign of a bad regulator. Older 2 wire stators have a single phase output while the newer stators with 3 wires have a 3 phase output. The 3 phase system provides a more consistent and higher current output to the voltage regulator. The voltage regulator takes the AC from the alternator, rectifies it to DC and limits the voltage level to the battery depending on the voltage reading it gets back from the battery.

Also remember, when starting a Harley, hit the starter and hold it in till it is firing on both cylinders and running before letting up. If you let up before it’s running, quiet often, it actually take an FI motor longer to start. There is a fraction of a second more for a long stroke Harley then a multi-cylinder car for it to get going. If you do not do this, it will kick back with a bang, sneeze thru the intake or crank a lot longer the second time or shame on you the third time. Also, if you have a habit of doing this, the starter solenoid switch contact will only have half the life it could. You cannot hurt the starter. The starter gear has a sprag clutch. There are drive pins in it that as the gas motor catches and run, it outruns the starter motor drive and disengages it from the electric motor. If you hold it in a little too long and listen carefully, you will hear the sprag clutch run up the ramps and slip. Makes a sizzle hum. This will show you your starter sprag clutch is OK.

 

Done both at one time or another. Replacing the switch is not difficult if you can solder, just awkward, as I seem to need more than two hands to hold everything.

For the record, my '94 Softail does this too, and has for many years. Usually just the first cold start of the day, unless the battery is BRAND NEW. I put a solenoid mounted starter button on the bike years ago, and I've developed the habit of giving the button a "nudge" by hand to get free up the solenoid before the first cold start of the day. Bike starts every time after that.


Yes, I've replaced the battery cables with better cables, cleaned all connections, cleaned/greased the solenoid, cleaned/replaced the ignition switch and relay. I've replaced the starter. I've even rewired the bike so I can start the bike without the lights on. Everything works for a couple of months, then the problem surfaces again. I can only conclude that the starting circuit on my bike is marginal at best, and probably wasn't intended to last as long as it has. Either that, or the replacement starter has some kind of issue causing the solenoid to stick when cold.

 

You should be able to here the start relay. He said he hear's nothing. That is why I did not believe it's the starter.

 

wow thanks for all the info! gonna have to print things out and take to the garage.
hmmm...Im not sure its the starter. I hit the button this morning (not on tender til this evening) and got a second longer delay then normal and it kicked right over and started.
when I have this issue, it is usually first start. press the start button and hear nothing at all.