I have never heard a single negative word about Fuel Moto. They rock. Best customer service on the planet.

 

Thats another damn good suggestion!
Thanks Sparky!
(retired IBEW)

 

just making sure you understand , if you tune your setup with something other than the HD tuner you're going to have to find a way to make sure no HD dealer service tech ever hooks your bike up to the diagnostic computer , even if your bike is in to have a tire changed and the tech decides a diagnostic would be something nice to do for you , or you get the new guy and he just wants to try it .

 

First time ever heard they “send your flagged info straight to the EPA”. I can understand keeping records and supplying on demand. But I find it hard to believe the epa has some master list of voided vin numbers. It’s not like that somehow translates to capacity to register your vehicle which largely falls under functions of individual states. They don’t talk to each other in that capacity.

 

Harley does not send your flagged vehicle info to the EPA...

However, the EPA Consent Decree does require the MoCo to report certain things. One of them is how many warranties have been denied... While the MoCo has all the pertinent info, they are only supplying EPA with a number....


From the consent decree itself...

"d. the status of the compliance requirements set forth in Paragraph 13 (Buyback and Destruction of Subject Tuners); Paragraph 14 (Denial of Warranty), e.g., the number of warranties that Harley-Davidson has denied, or that Harley-Davidson is aware that Harley-Davidson dealers have denied; and Paragraph 17 and Appendix A (Emissions Mitigation Program);"

Even if they sent your info to the EPA, that currently has nothing to do with your registration... The EPA would have to work out a deal with each state DMV about reporting, handling the info, and then the consequences of how the state DMV would handle registrations from "flagged vehicles"...

While this is a future possibility, and if it ever happened, it would certainly happen in CA first, but there are many things to be worked out... "and paid for" ..... before it would happen. The cost makes me believe it won't happen anytime in the near future...

 

wouldnt this kill the aftermarket industry

 

There are two very large groups of 2017+ Harley riders that will keep the aftermarket going: Riders who don't care about their powertrain warranty and will do everything they want as soon as they buy the bike, and riders who will simply wait two years and one day and then do everything they want.

 

BINGO......!!!

Why do you think the MoCo entered into the Consent decree with the EPA....???

It has been a boon to the MoCo.... people are buying upgrades from the MoCo, who would usually get much better mods from aftermarket sources...!!

But it won't kill the aftermarket industry...... Like IdahoHacker said, there are many people who don't care about the warranty, don't have the dealer do any work on their bikes, or will just wait until the warranty is up...

The aftermarket for M8 upgrades is thriving... and many shops, FuelMoto comes to mind as one of them, are getting really good gains with their big bore kits...!

 

I've said the same thing multiple times, and I'm afraid our opinion on this simply isn't getting enough airplay. I am convinced, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the MoCo's attorneys were heavily involved in drafting the details of the Consent Decree. It's as if the details were written specifically to give enormous financial gain to Harley, by essentially forcing buyers to forgo aftermarket parts and stick to Screamin' Eagle upgrades only.

It's classic Br'er Rabbit in the Briar Patch come to life.

It just stinks.

 

I think you're missing the whole point.

So, to clarify: if you use non-EPA-legal parts, you void the warranty. Regardless of what tuner you use, the warranty is voided when you use "race-only" or "competition-only" parts, or parts that are labeled as "not legal for street use" etc. If you use any parts that impair the emissions control system, your warranty is gone. If you remove the cat, the warranty is gone. Read the warranty, it says so.

A second issue is the tuner -- using a non-EPA-compliant tuner ALSO voids the warranty. Even if your bike is composed of 100% street-legal Harley parts, just the fact you used a tuner will void the warranty. That is a new thing for the 2017+ bikes, it's a federal court requirement because of the EPA Consent Decree. The sad thing is, even if the resulting tune were to be EPA-legal, Harley is STILL required to void your warranty simply because the tuner was used. But that's the way it is, and Harley's hands are tied, they are under federal court order.

So if you used that R-B exhaust, and tuned it with the Harley tuner, it might not be flagged immediately when they put the Digital Technician on, that's true. But before any warranty work is authorized Harley is going to tell the dealer to send in a picture of the exhaust, and as soon as they see it's an aftermarket 2-1 system, bam the warranty is voided and your VIN is flagged. Even if you used the Harley tuner.

If you put in only that 22X cam, you may or may not get your warranty flagged. How would they know? It would probably only become an issue if you needed a major repair like an engine replacement; in that case maybe they'd tear it down and as soon as they discovered that cam, bam, your warranty is gone again. But the bigger problem is: how would you properly tune the bike, with that aftermarket cam in it? The Harley tuner probably can't make a proper tune for it, and an aftermarket tuner will immediately flag the VIN as soon as the DT is connected, so ... you'd be left with a poor-running bike. No point in even doing that.

So you have two choices, when modding a new warrantied bike: either a) don't put on street-illegal parts, or b) put 'em on and recognize that you yourself have voided the warranty, you yourself have caused the VIN to get flagged, and you yourself have created the situation where the bike is now worth half its value.

If you want performance parts that maintain the warranty, the only game in town is the Screamin' Eagle Stage kits. Or a very, very few aftermarket bits like the S&S Superstreet pipe. That's it. Everyone else has listed "not legal for street use" on their parts, and -- they mean it. You put that on, your bike is no longer legal, and as your warranty clearly states, if you modify the bike so it's not legal to operate on the streets of the territory it's registered in, then the warranty is voided.