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H-D Evo FLSTC - Starting issue; can you identify it?
1999 FLSTC
H-D CV carburetor
Stage II Andrews EV13 cam
.0045 runout; within specs
Vance and Hines exhaust with K&N filter
Howdy from Texas!
As with any other thread, motorcycle was working fine, all of a sudden it felt as it ran out of fuel, turned the petcock to reserve but bike kept loosing power. It did not "cough", but a descending loss of power until motorcycle stalled; as if the fuel line was suddenly cut off. PLEASE SEE VIDEO LINK NOW
I have had the same cranking outcome since roughly October of 2020, it is now May 2021; it has been ridiculous and my ego has gotten on the way of taking it into a shop.
Five things needed to run:
*Compression test, cannot recall exact numbers out of the top of my head but they were good. Either 150psiF - 147psiR or 130psiF - 127psiR
*Fuel can be seen squirted out in the plenum.
*Air box is off.
*Electronic (H-D OEM) crank position sensor statically timed.
*Spark was confirmed to be present using an inline spark plug tester.
I'm mechanically inclined, not soo good with electronics but I do understand basics. I do have an OEM service manual which I've used to troubleshoot and confirm values as I go. Since I am unsure of how old the stator is, it has been disconnected throughout the whole time to eliminate any grounding possibilities. Battery is always hooked to the battery tender.
Last test consisted:
Pulled three fuses off INSTR / LIGHTS / ACCY, leaving IGN line isolated. (see picture below)
Unplugged right hand controls at the harness, and used alligator clips to jump eng.stop.switch.button (GY - gray wire) to start.switch.button (W/BK - white with black wire).
I then probe tested the starter solenoid (GN - green wire) at the starter with same cranking results. I repeated this test with all fuses installed, same results.
I do not have an ammeter/amp probe with high enough DC range to test the positive cable at crank.
From the spark plugs, it can be seen the front cylinder is not combusting/firing (see picture below); this was confirmed by placing my hand at the tip of the exhaust.
I've pulled the solenoid cover to check up on the copper contacts, they do need replacement as some corrosion is present (see pictures below). Could this be shorting the system at startup?
The one thing I have not tried is push starting it on second gear, thoughts?
*Pulled and placed a dab of diaelectric grease to every single bulb, fuse, plug, battery post and cables; except the LED's at the dash.
*Checked harness connections at every single plug for peeled or brittleness in cable sheathing.
*There is only two main harness grounds, both of them in the frame above the battery. They're very accessible and easy to asses/service.
*H-D CV carburetor, cannot recall the jet sizes but they're appropriate based on Andrews cam install instruction.
Ignition components have been replaced with OEM equipment:
Electronic crank position sensor (points) - PT 32448-95B
Ignition coil - PT 31614-83A (picture below was taken with old ignition coil)
Spark plug cable - PT 31985-91A
Spark plugs - PT 32311-83
Ignition Module - PT 32449-95C
Main 30 amp breaker - PT 74599-77C
Starter relay - PT 31504-91B
Energy storage:
Positive battery cable - PT 70078-96
Battery was taken to AutoZone and load tested. I was told it was still a good battery.
Charging system with OEM equipment:
Regulator/rectifier - PT 74519-88B
Carburetor equipment:
Intake seals - PT 26995-86B
Last but not least, is there a specific orientation on these breakerless fuses? On the lower black plastic, there is a small emboss reading AUX on one side, & BATT on the other. I've oriented them so the BATT is on the R/BK wires, can anyone confirm this?
I've pulled the solenoid cover to check up on the copper contacts, they do need replacement as some corrosion is present (see pictures below). Could this be shorting the system at startup?
No
Originally Posted by TAKITO SEXY
The one thing I have not tried is push starting it on second gear, thoughts?
That would not prove a thing, even if it starts, what would it point to? The bike should start by cranking the starter, don`t get distracted.
How old is the battery?
Does that bike have the OEM fuel petcock?
If so, make sure it is turning the fuel flow on when there is vacuum applied to it.
Make sure the vacuum hose is connected and in good condition.
Make sure the fuel screen is not clogged.
Replace all fuel hoses.
Disassemble and clean carburetor.
Last edited by Dan89FLSTC; May 21, 2021 at 12:56 PM.
No
That would not prove a thing, even if it starts, what would it point to? The bike should start by cranking the starter, don`t get distracted. You're right, I still have to press the start/run button to get it going, which won't work.
How old is the battery? To be honest I am not sure, hence why I took it to AutoZone to have it load tested.
Does that bike have the OEM fuel petcock? Good question, I assume it is not because you mentioned a vacuum line, which the petcock on this bike does not have.
If so, make sure it is turning the fuel flow on when there is vacuum applied to it. There is only one vacuum line from the top of the carburetor, to the VOES. That's how the bike was set up when bought.
Make sure the vacuum hose is connected and in good condition. Fuel pours out if hose is disconnected at petcock. Gasoline is present in the bowl, if one loosens the overflow phillips screw at bottom gasoline starts flowing out. Also, the pump accelerator squirts at the plenum when throttle is twisted.
Make sure the fuel screen is not clogged. It's pretty cleaned, I have a borescope and good lighting to confirm.
Replace all fuel hoses. There is only one fuel hose from petcock to carb bowl, other line is the "breather" line which runs in between the tank; both in good condition.
Disassemble and clean carburetor. It's clean, believe me when I say it has been disassembled and cleaned, not my first carb, and do understand how they work.
I understand your reasoning of why it may be fuel related, but I doubt it. The spark plug tip is wet and smells like fuel, but yes indeed I may be overlooking at something. I can perform a test or an idea you may suggest, no problem. Or any picture(s) you may want to see. Thanks for posting!
Thanks for the suggestion, I've done an attitude test (per service manual) and the cheap Chinese knock off, as well as the new OEM H-D come out within the tolerable voltage.
I cannot recall out of the top of my head what the parameters are, but I do remember writing it in my pad at home.
Originally Posted by Ian Hoots
I think I read it all twice, did the crank position sensor get replaced after the problem started, or before?
I don't think you are barking up the wrong tree with spark, however you do need to rule out the fuel system like Dan says.
It's not going to be the starter, those contacts can look a lot worse than that and it will still start.
Yes, the crank position sensor was replaced after the problem started. First, with a Chinese (eBay) knock off, and eventually bought an OEM H-D crank position sensor; the latter is in place as of now.
It was not fuel related, fresh gas on both tanks, the screen has been replaced as well as the petcock o-rings, rebuild kit. It is not a vacuum operated petcock, the bowl is full of gas, it pours as soon as the phillips screw is loosen at bowl. Gas squirts at throttle blip.
You are correct, it is not the starter either, I did an ammeter (per service manual) test on the positive cable and it is within parameters, 180-200amps.
Thank you all who replied and gave helpful insight to this problem. I'm extremely happy to find the issue and move on, it has been a long eight months chasing this gremlin.
As any other story starts, the motorcycle was running, and while riding all of a sudden it shut off. Something like running out of fuel, but instead of the tugging and coughing, it felt more of a descending power loss; almost like a landing airplane. While working to figure out what was wrong, I discovered two spots (connection at dash, connection at rear fender) where the main wiring harness was rubbing and grounding. I put some new sheating over it and that took care of the grounding.
This is very important because the electrical short led me to believe my "no starting" problem was electrical; which in fact it was not.
As I mentioned before, I'm mechanically savvy, and do understand basic/intermediate electrical systems; I've had my good share (about 12 motorcycles total) of practice, not only my own but friends and customer motorcycles that I've worked on. I do own a service manual and use it as much as I can, all the testing, procedures, results, whatever it may be it's based off the manual.
With all these mumble jumbo, and to cut it short, I put my thinking helmet on yesterday and decided to check the pushrods. Whoila!!! There it was!! All the pushrod locknuts were loose to the touch; rear cylinder exhaust pushrod was completely loose, just dangling around. I did my own Stage II and failed to place a dab of loctite in the threads, did not think they would back pedal but now I know. Hard lesson learned.
It's been a long eight months just walking past by it and not being able to ride it. Guys, I've done a lot of testing on this bike, a lot!! And I can honestly say I feel a lot closer and confident to ride my bike, love it!!
Side note, I did take it to two mechanics here in the area, a chopper guy, and a resto guy, both of them couldn't figure it out. I'm not saying they're bad mechanics, or that I'm better, but I'd like to encourage those grinding on their own scoots, to not let the daily issues get to you, be patient, get a manual and make do!!
Below are some pictures and small clip of the motorcycle running, enjoy and thanks all who chimed in.
Glad you finally got it figured out.... persistence DOES pay off in the long run..!
I have a set of adjustable pushrods in one of my bikes now, but only because Smith Brothers didn't return my call when I was trying to order custom solid pushrods for my new cams... I've always used solid pushrods for various reasons, your issue just being one of them..
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H-D Evo FLSTC - Starting issue; can you identify it?
