Slip On Muffler Debate
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Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Oswego NY..."a little town, a lotta assholes "
Got em on today. Fired it up in the garage and knocked the nick nacks off the kitchen wall! Put the quiet baffles in and like it that way alot better. time will tell if A/C and Fuelpak will be added. But I love the sound!
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From: Oswego NY..."a little town, a lotta assholes "
I don't know, I guess I was afraid of screwing up something in the motor if I didn't install the Fuel Pak correctly. Actually, I called Vance and Hines Tech Support and they gave me the correct set of numbers to plug in and it was pretty easy. But, I have to admit I was a little nervous when I hit the ignition the 1st time. But wow, what a sweet sound.
Intermediate
Joined: May 2007
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Ecu?
Although I have not looked at mapping of HD ECU, I am sure it is very similar to a car with ODBII systems.
Typically, there are 2 modes; Open Loop and Closed Loop.
In the Closed Loop, the ECU tries to keep Air / Fuel ratio to 14.7 to 1 primarily using the O2 sensor (narrow wide band - most common one) so that it can get optimum milage. Again, this is for a car. I am sure HD is same way.
In the Open Loop, the table (Map 2 D or 3D) within the ECU determines how injector cycle should be run based on the LOAD & RPM. (This is very brief description...)
What make a switch over from "Closed Loop" to "Open Loop" is the "throattle position" along with "Load" for some. But, "Throattle Position" is most used in basic form. So, if you press gas paddle over 60% it will switch over to "Open Loop" and will use a map typicall written (resolution is based on RPM & LOAD....)
So, if it is like a ODBII systems in a car, a HD will probably use the stock O2 sensor and try to keep a certain AF ratio like 14.7:1 in the Closed Loop. In this case, you can change exhaust or air intake and it will compensate for a change automatically. However, you will see the AF getting weird as soon as "Open Loop" kicks in as it will run the injectors based on the set cycle from a pre-written map based on stock configuration. Hence, the power pak or whatever you guys call it is probably altering the signals to change the value. These are often called "Piggy Back" systems. I am sure HD would have a full blown stand alone systems where you can change original factory mapping which may even includes elevation, outside temp, and Intake Air Flow sensor reading/compensation...etc....
I hope this clarifies the reason of why some vendors are saying there is a need to upgrade an ECU....
Typically, there are 2 modes; Open Loop and Closed Loop.
In the Closed Loop, the ECU tries to keep Air / Fuel ratio to 14.7 to 1 primarily using the O2 sensor (narrow wide band - most common one) so that it can get optimum milage. Again, this is for a car. I am sure HD is same way.
In the Open Loop, the table (Map 2 D or 3D) within the ECU determines how injector cycle should be run based on the LOAD & RPM. (This is very brief description...)
What make a switch over from "Closed Loop" to "Open Loop" is the "throattle position" along with "Load" for some. But, "Throattle Position" is most used in basic form. So, if you press gas paddle over 60% it will switch over to "Open Loop" and will use a map typicall written (resolution is based on RPM & LOAD....)
So, if it is like a ODBII systems in a car, a HD will probably use the stock O2 sensor and try to keep a certain AF ratio like 14.7:1 in the Closed Loop. In this case, you can change exhaust or air intake and it will compensate for a change automatically. However, you will see the AF getting weird as soon as "Open Loop" kicks in as it will run the injectors based on the set cycle from a pre-written map based on stock configuration. Hence, the power pak or whatever you guys call it is probably altering the signals to change the value. These are often called "Piggy Back" systems. I am sure HD would have a full blown stand alone systems where you can change original factory mapping which may even includes elevation, outside temp, and Intake Air Flow sensor reading/compensation...etc....
I hope this clarifies the reason of why some vendors are saying there is a need to upgrade an ECU....
I don't know, I guess I was afraid of screwing up something in the motor if I didn't install the Fuel Pak correctly. Actually, I called Vance and Hines Tech Support and they gave me the correct set of numbers to plug in and it was pretty easy. But, I have to admit I was a little nervous when I hit the ignition the 1st time. But wow, what a sweet sound.
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 133
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In my experiences thus far, you can usually get away with just changing pipes or mufflers on a fuel injected bike and be alright.....notice I didn't say good, just alright. The bike will run, but you may notice some flat spots in the power band and you may experience some backfiring. My advice is to save the money and do pipes, air cleaner, and fuel management all at the same time. I know it costs a lot more, but its worth it in the long run.
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Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 512
Likes: 4
From: NW Arkansas
After veiwing dyno printouts from the one shop I trust more than anyone else. I agree that you do not need to remap anything. Unless you open the intake up. I've dealt with this shop for over 40 years and they say it's not required.
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From: Oswego NY..."a little town, a lotta assholes "
Everything seems to be working fine. I do notice a little popping when decelerating or downshifting. Just wondering if this is normal ? All in all
I love the rumble. Not to loud not to soft, just right ! The Air Cleaner and The Fuel Pak were actually easy to install . The Slip Ons were a bit of a pain because I had to take the heat shields off to get to the little set screw that holds the Quiet Baffle in. It's on the inside of the pipe toward the bike frame and hard to get a allen wrench on it. If you want the Quiet Baffle, put 'em in before mounting the pipes on the bike. It will be alot easier .
I love the rumble. Not to loud not to soft, just right ! The Air Cleaner and The Fuel Pak were actually easy to install . The Slip Ons were a bit of a pain because I had to take the heat shields off to get to the little set screw that holds the Quiet Baffle in. It's on the inside of the pipe toward the bike frame and hard to get a allen wrench on it. If you want the Quiet Baffle, put 'em in before mounting the pipes on the bike. It will be alot easier .
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dafuzz89
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Jun 14, 2013 09:20 PM
