Samson cholos and performance issues????
Tourer
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 306
Likes: 8
From: Homer Alaska
First off, I can't imagine someone with 42" long exhaust pipes that stick almost two feet past the rear of the bike as someone who has performance as their first priority. Really? Come on, the question itself is ridiculous.
That said, any true dual system does not have the performance potential of a 2:1 system due to the fact that the 2:1 system has the advantage of exhaust gas scavenging. A properly designed 2:1 system will always outperform a true dual system. Now by how much? That will depend on the cam choice, fueling, engine displacement and other factors (RPM, altitude, etc.).
For most of us, exhaust was just one part of our many performance upgrades. Often, these upgrades were done at the same time, so the net improvement of performance of our upgrades was noticed by us after installation.
In my case, I installed the Samson 33" removable baffle/tip system when I installed the Arlen Ness Big Sucker, and PCIIIUSB (which was dyno tuned) all at the same time onto my 95" motor. The difference was amazing!
Could it have been more amazing if I had chosen to install a properly designed 2:1 system on my bike instead? No doubt, even my tuner said my bike would be stronger with that type of system. Now how would a 2:1 system have looked on my bike? Awful!! And I care about how it looks.
My bike dyno'd at about 90hp/100tq with its current Samson system (and its other upgrades, of course). That is waaay better than stock. Would I notice another 10hp/10tq with a 2:1 system? No doubt! Would I enjoy the looks of the bike with a 2:1 system? No way!
So there it is. Obvious. Our bikes are personalized to our multiple tastes/priorities. I suspect that folks who choose a true dual exhaust system are getting better performance than stock systems, but not burning the candle as bright as possible. Why? For the sake of the looks of the exhaust system.
Anyone who has a chrome exhaust has made the same compromise (even if they are not aware of the fact that they made a choice). A ceramic-coated black exhaust system is the best design for heat-removal from the engine and thus will improve the longevity of their motor. That means, in the absolute, for all of us who chose to go with a chrome exhaust system are not as concerned with the long life of our motors as those who go with ceramic coated black exhaust systems. Does that mean we hate our engines?
Nope. All decisions we make in life are compromises of some sort.
So what.
That said, any true dual system does not have the performance potential of a 2:1 system due to the fact that the 2:1 system has the advantage of exhaust gas scavenging. A properly designed 2:1 system will always outperform a true dual system. Now by how much? That will depend on the cam choice, fueling, engine displacement and other factors (RPM, altitude, etc.).
For most of us, exhaust was just one part of our many performance upgrades. Often, these upgrades were done at the same time, so the net improvement of performance of our upgrades was noticed by us after installation.
In my case, I installed the Samson 33" removable baffle/tip system when I installed the Arlen Ness Big Sucker, and PCIIIUSB (which was dyno tuned) all at the same time onto my 95" motor. The difference was amazing!
Could it have been more amazing if I had chosen to install a properly designed 2:1 system on my bike instead? No doubt, even my tuner said my bike would be stronger with that type of system. Now how would a 2:1 system have looked on my bike? Awful!! And I care about how it looks.
My bike dyno'd at about 90hp/100tq with its current Samson system (and its other upgrades, of course). That is waaay better than stock. Would I notice another 10hp/10tq with a 2:1 system? No doubt! Would I enjoy the looks of the bike with a 2:1 system? No way!
So there it is. Obvious. Our bikes are personalized to our multiple tastes/priorities. I suspect that folks who choose a true dual exhaust system are getting better performance than stock systems, but not burning the candle as bright as possible. Why? For the sake of the looks of the exhaust system.
Anyone who has a chrome exhaust has made the same compromise (even if they are not aware of the fact that they made a choice). A ceramic-coated black exhaust system is the best design for heat-removal from the engine and thus will improve the longevity of their motor. That means, in the absolute, for all of us who chose to go with a chrome exhaust system are not as concerned with the long life of our motors as those who go with ceramic coated black exhaust systems. Does that mean we hate our engines?
Nope. All decisions we make in life are compromises of some sort.
So what.
I could not of said it better .
When I decided to order the 42" I never thought once about engine performance . I was after the look , sound and the dual exhaust .
As for performance I have not been on my bike since the modifications so I have no idea if I gained or lost ?? I also had a new carb and breather installed the same time I had the Cholos put on so I probably gained .
RR
Tourer
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 487
Likes: 9
From: Yorkshire, England
As I said, I'm not interested in performance - I just wanted the bike to run at its best.
All in all the Samson (36") swop has been a BIG plus.
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 47
From: Lake Tahoe California
If you still have the pipes on your bike that are in your signature picture, then, I suspect you will have NO difference in performance. You already have a true dual system, they just exit from the same side. The length of the Samson pipes relative to the ones you now have, I suspect, will pose no measurable factor in your performance. I would get your bike dyno tuned with a fueling solution (like a PC or the like). THAT will make a huge positive difference.
Thread Starter
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2nd Gear
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Utah
I'd like to thank everyone for their comments and pictures. I have a 103" stock motor with Power Vision and stage 1 air cleaner. My biggest concern was; I didn't want my power to drop below the stock. Any improvement above stock is a plus! From what I understand from the experiences of some of you is with a tuner and stage 1 air cleaner, my performance will be better than stock. And that is the question that I was hopping to get answered.
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 460
Likes: 1
From: Bucks County,Pa
wow im glad this thread is active.i love the look of the samsons,so much i started talkin to my tech about putting them on my bike,i am a performance guy i guess,just look at my sig.he told me all the work and money,and time getting my motor to the point it is now with the numbers it produced i would lose it all,down low,up high and side to side haha.so i rethought my decision and i will stick with my fatcat.while i think the samsons look bad ***,i think the fatcat also looks bad *** in a different way if that makes sense.when i do get board with this set up i will be going with the samsons,as other people have stated if set up along with other key components,those pipes are lookers for sure.cool cost money ,how cool do ya wanna be ......lol thanks Tommy
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 2
From: Detroit
My stock power wasn't great but it was good enough for cruising, after the big bore and cams it is like a whole new bike but if I have to give up a few ft lbs of torque I guess it wont be the end of the world. As long as the bike is running good and strong some nice looking pipes cant hurt. I will get a re-tune though and I might run baffles so who knows.
Im ordering 36 cholos next week.
Im ordering 36 cholos next week.
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 47
From: Lake Tahoe California
My stock power wasn't great but it was good enough for cruising, after the big bore and cams it is like a whole new bike but if I have to give up a few ft lbs of torque I guess it wont be the end of the world. As long as the bike is running good and strong some nice looking pipes cant hurt. I will get a re-tune though and I might run baffles so who knows.
Im ordering 36 cholos next week.
Im ordering 36 cholos next week.
I wouldn't be afraid of the performance. I have essentially the same engine combo as you (and my bike is heavier due to my forks than is yours) and my bike is far from slow. I have rarely, if ever, had another Harley run away from me. I have, on the other hand surprised quite a few big-cube guys. No one ever suspects the ***-whooping a well-tuned 95"/98" can deliver. They do hear you though!!
Besides, when you have a bike that looks as nice as yours, who wants to ride fast? Everyone will break their necks just to look at you! Be kind, ride slow so folks don't get hurt looking at your bike!!!
Last edited by SprungDave; Jan 29, 2013 at 11:40 AM.
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,908
Likes: 19
From: Dayton
Benway,
If you still have the pipes on your bike that are in your signature picture, then, I suspect you will have NO difference in performance. You already have a true dual system, they just exit from the same side. The length of the Samson pipes relative to the ones you now have, I suspect, will pose no measurable factor in your performance. I would get your bike dyno tuned with a fueling solution (like a PC or the like). THAT will make a huge positive difference.
If you still have the pipes on your bike that are in your signature picture, then, I suspect you will have NO difference in performance. You already have a true dual system, they just exit from the same side. The length of the Samson pipes relative to the ones you now have, I suspect, will pose no measurable factor in your performance. I would get your bike dyno tuned with a fueling solution (like a PC or the like). THAT will make a huge positive difference.
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 2
From: Detroit
Dave are yours 36"? or are those 33"