running stock air filter
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Novice
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 19
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From: Northern California
running stock air filter
So last week I threw some big shot staggered on my 2007 fatboy with a fuelpak, and have yet to find a air cleaner that I want.... from talking with people they say that I should get an air cleaner sooner then later, but everyone says it wont really hurt anything. Is the bike just running leaner or it actually bad to run bike without high flow.
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 2
From: New Hampshire
Why do you want an air cleaner? Are you looking for better performance? What is the fuelpak doing for you? If everything else is/was stock then changing the pipes does not mean you need a Fuelpak or air cleaner. Getting a free flow air intake backing plate and air filter will improve change your air/fuel ratio and will require a modification to you EFI module for optimal performance.
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 322,622
Likes: 3,077
From: .....
The "rule" I've read here is, slip ons require no different AC or tuner than stock. Full pipe change does on both AC and tuner. I'm not sure if year models make a difference or not.
Edit...I know my post differs with the above but what I posted, is what I've read here over and over.
Edit...I know my post differs with the above but what I posted, is what I've read here over and over.
Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 526
Likes: 4
From: North Atlanta Georgia
I was running the stock air cleaner and pipes when I did an "improved" stock download from my Power Vision. Even though everything is stock doesn't mean you can't improve performance with a tuner. Not a matter of having to have one or not
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,217
Likes: 90
From: Detroit
So last week I threw some big shot staggered on my 2007 fatboy with a fuelpak, and have yet to find a air cleaner that I want.... from talking with people they say that I should get an air cleaner sooner then later, but everyone says it wont really hurt anything. Is the bike just running leaner or it actually bad to run bike without high flow.
Modern fuel injection systems are pretty good at automatically compensating for changes, like an altitude change. Switching to an air filter which flows less or more air isn't much different than an altitude change.
I have two fuel-injected Harleys, one with just pipes, and the other with both a higher flow air cleaner and pipes. The one with both changes checked out fine on the dyno, with no tuning changes, other than what the computer made automatically.
My current opinion is that the recommendation that tuning is needed for a "Stage One" is mostly a way to lighten your wallet.
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,086
Likes: 2
Both Harley dealers I've worked with and one indie shop (I honestly like to stick with people I know, so I don't "shop around") all say that you can change pipes, or cleaner, or cleaner and slip-ons with no tuner needed. However, if you change to a free flowing system (both A/C and full-exhaust) a tuner is needed, or the bike will run too lean.
My recommendation would be to just get the tuner. Better to play it safe than be sorry. Not to mention it leaves you open to future mods without having to worry about it later.
My recommendation would be to just get the tuner. Better to play it safe than be sorry. Not to mention it leaves you open to future mods without having to worry about it later.
Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 523
Likes: 1
From: kingston ontario
it seems this is an area where the individual character of a bike makes a difference.
example take 2 bikes same model/year, add the same pipes and intake to both, tune or dyno both and you will often see two different airflow requirements.
the only conclusion i can really stand behind is maybe you need a tuner/dyno and maybe you dont.
maybe the ecm can handle the changes, maybe it cant.
testing would be the only way to know for sure.
having said that i think changing just a/c or pipes shouldnt be an issue.... tho with a good tuner there are other things/settings you can change besides the afr/map.
you kinda have to know what you want from your bike.
example take 2 bikes same model/year, add the same pipes and intake to both, tune or dyno both and you will often see two different airflow requirements.
the only conclusion i can really stand behind is maybe you need a tuner/dyno and maybe you dont.
maybe the ecm can handle the changes, maybe it cant.
testing would be the only way to know for sure.
having said that i think changing just a/c or pipes shouldnt be an issue.... tho with a good tuner there are other things/settings you can change besides the afr/map.
you kinda have to know what you want from your bike.
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Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 526
Likes: 4
From: North Atlanta Georgia
it seems this is an area where the individual character of a bike makes a difference.
example take 2 bikes same model/year, add the same pipes and intake to both, tune or dyno both and you will often see two different airflow requirements.
the only conclusion i can really stand behind is maybe you need a tuner/dyno and maybe you dont.
maybe the ecm can handle the changes, maybe it cant.
testing would be the only way to know for sure.
having said that i think changing just a/c or pipes shouldnt be an issue.... tho with a good tuner there are other things/settings you can change besides the afr/map.
you kinda have to know what you want from your bike.
example take 2 bikes same model/year, add the same pipes and intake to both, tune or dyno both and you will often see two different airflow requirements.
the only conclusion i can really stand behind is maybe you need a tuner/dyno and maybe you dont.
maybe the ecm can handle the changes, maybe it cant.
testing would be the only way to know for sure.
having said that i think changing just a/c or pipes shouldnt be an issue.... tho with a good tuner there are other things/settings you can change besides the afr/map.
you kinda have to know what you want from your bike.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,477
Likes: 14
From: Western MD
I wouldn't worry about it. If keeping the stock filter will do anything at all, it will probably make the bike run richer, compared to a higher-flow filter.
Modern fuel injection systems are pretty good at automatically compensating for changes, like an altitude change. Switching to an air filter which flows less or more air isn't much different than an altitude change.
I have two fuel-injected Harleys, one with just pipes, and the other with both a higher flow air cleaner and pipes. The one with both changes checked out fine on the dyno, with no tuning changes, other than what the computer made automatically.
My current opinion is that the recommendation that tuning is needed for a "Stage One" is mostly a way to lighten your wallet.
Modern fuel injection systems are pretty good at automatically compensating for changes, like an altitude change. Switching to an air filter which flows less or more air isn't much different than an altitude change.
I have two fuel-injected Harleys, one with just pipes, and the other with both a higher flow air cleaner and pipes. The one with both changes checked out fine on the dyno, with no tuning changes, other than what the computer made automatically.
My current opinion is that the recommendation that tuning is needed for a "Stage One" is mostly a way to lighten your wallet.
100% error free post.
I run a modified 2-1 Road glide exh and a SE heavy breather on my 07 fatboy. no popping on decel, no hesitation on acceleration and the oil temp runs anywhere from 190-220 depending on the air temp and traffic. though the factory efi does have its limits, it has a wider range of adjusting AF mixture then what most believe it can. if it couldn't adjust to the target AF ratio it would set a code for too lean or too rich what ever the case was/is.
just because you put a better free flowing air filter on, it didn't change the diameter of the actual throttle body bore or intake runners. no extra air is going down the intake, no matter how big a AC you put on it. the stock intake system can only flow so much CFM.
now if you go changing intakes, cams, heads, etc.. absolutely you would need a aftermarket programmer, but not for a stock motor..
Road Master
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,180
Likes: 3
From: utah
So last week I threw some big shot staggered on my 2007 fatboy with a fuelpak, and have yet to find a air cleaner that I want.... from talking with people they say that I should get an air cleaner sooner then later, but everyone says it wont really hurt anything. Is the bike just running leaner or it actually bad to run bike without high flow.