No problem, I appreciate your taking the time.
You gave me a couple of things to think about...

 

I just got a Power Vision for my 103 Dyna. I had the dealer install Vance and Hines Big Radius and SE Air Cleaner.

I did not pay for a Dyno tune, but the dealer put it on the Dyno anyway and gave me a before and after run.

They loaded a tune into the ECM that the dealer has done previously on a Dyna 103 with my exact config (V&H Big Radius & SE AC).

What I wonder is how different a tune could be with 2 identical bikes?

The bike runs great. Not sure I want to spend the money on a Dyno tune as I seemed to have got one "for free" ... to the extent that 2 "identical bikes" would run the same with the same ECM map.

Anyone know if the "delta" would be significant between 2 identical bikes with the same setup?

 

This is all above my head on the tuning thing but I can tell you this and I think I'm correct. But not sure. The mechanic took the bike out about three or four times riding it on the highway. Then each time after the run he downloaded data that was recorded off of the ECM into the Techno Research device that showed the data on the computer. I cannot interpret that. Then he was hooked up with the people back in Michigan who were looking at the data also. From there the changes were made, and put back into the ECM. The devices they used provided changes/calibration/data every 100 or 125 rpm of the engine. This direct link thing they have is new and I asked him who these people were that he was talking and he said they were the experts on setting the maps, tuning, etc. Like I said, some of this was new, the mechanic was learning and the people who were watching all this made sure that it was right. Once it was set up he made a run and the data was saved on the ECM and I got it on a chip, along with the original data that H-D had in the ECM to begin with. It cost me $450. It was worth it.

 

It seems that you got a couple of pulls for free, which is nice. A dyno tune is a pretty lengthy process that takes several hours. It involves running your bike several times and making adjustments as you go. The good tuners will also use a tail pipe "sniffer" to check your AFR's as they get your map dialed in. Instead of relying only on the O2 sensors. Most people hear dyno and think about all out horsepower, dyno tuning is about efficiency across the whole RPM range. A lot of the scammers just load a map then jack up your AFR's out of closed loop and call it done. You can run your bike on a dyno in a lot of RPM and gear configurations that would likely get you arrested on the street, the purpose of the dyno is to load your bke down and simulate riding on the street/track and then monitor whats going on and then make changes accordingly. You may need a little more fuel or maybe a little less timing in different areas. If you only need a little more fuel in the decell to help with poping what would good would it do to add fuel accross the board where you don't need it? I don't care for blowing money out my tailpipe. When your bike is on a dyno, in the hands of a qualified operator, you have the ability to watch all this go on through the computer monitor as well as hear the bike run. Plus have you ever tried to use a laptop while riding? That is one of the nicer features of the Powervision you can mount it to the handle bars and see things in "real time" like you can while running your bike on a dyno, instead of gathering data while riding, downloading it to your computer and then looking at a graph and trying to figure out how the graph matches up with what you are experiencing during your ride.

I wouldn't be too concerned if they loaded a map that they have used on another bike with the same equipment, chances are its pretty close and if its a map that was created during a dyno tune than somebody else paid for the research. Another great source for maps, since you have the Powervission, is FuelMoto. They have run so many bikes with so many different configurations that they may be able to sell you a map that any dynotuner would have a hard time improving upon.

 

They did about the same thing but without a dyno. Ride the bike and gather data, look it over and see what needs changed, make changes and then go back out and ride to evaluate the changes. what they were doing was "learning" what your bike wants (dialing in the VE's) once that is established then it's just adjusting the AFR's and timing. How long did it take? It sounds pretty fair for the amount of work involved.