EFI, why, whats the problem
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Road Warrior
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,377
Likes: 20
From: Kafar Hanusi
EFI, why, whats the problem
Hello all,
I've read a number of threads about newer sporties and many writers seem to be against EFI the system. Can anyone explain why the bias?
I remember those dam points, balancing carbs (had a honda 750-4, whatta-bitch) tuning & trying to ride with minimal power or advanced/ retarded timing.
To me it seems to be better, more reliable, even the fuel injection works.
Your thoughts please.
.
I've read a number of threads about newer sporties and many writers seem to be against EFI the system. Can anyone explain why the bias?
I remember those dam points, balancing carbs (had a honda 750-4, whatta-bitch) tuning & trying to ride with minimal power or advanced/ retarded timing.
To me it seems to be better, more reliable, even the fuel injection works.
Your thoughts please.
.
Road Master
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 893
Likes: 0
From: Knob Noster, MO
Some people don't like change I guess is the only thing I can think of. I would much rather have an EFI controlled bike over a Carbed bike. I have owned both and prefer EFI, to each their own.
I've been running EFI for a couple years now on both my bikes. I don't think I have anything against EFI, I still prefer the sound of a carbed bike better.
I really prefer tuning a carbed bike over all the computer tuning hassle AND expense of an EFI.
And even though it seems most guys nowadays have their bikes for recreation, my bikes are my primary transportation, so it does matter to me what kind of MPG I get...both from a cost standpoint and from a range standpoint on how often I have to stop and fill up.
I do know of some EFI bikes that run strong and get as good or better mileage than carbed bikes, but they seem to be few and far between, and those guys spent a ton of $ to get them there.
Theory says EFI will be more efficient, but my real world experience is that most carbed bikes running strong get better MPG than EFI bikes.... Sportster evo's & TC's.
I may be hammered for the above observation, but this is what I see on a daily basis.
I do like not having to kick em over anymore, and it is nice to give it a minute or so to warm up and ride off without touching the choke, but I will still trade back to a carb given the right opportunity.
I really prefer tuning a carbed bike over all the computer tuning hassle AND expense of an EFI.
And even though it seems most guys nowadays have their bikes for recreation, my bikes are my primary transportation, so it does matter to me what kind of MPG I get...both from a cost standpoint and from a range standpoint on how often I have to stop and fill up.
I do know of some EFI bikes that run strong and get as good or better mileage than carbed bikes, but they seem to be few and far between, and those guys spent a ton of $ to get them there.
Theory says EFI will be more efficient, but my real world experience is that most carbed bikes running strong get better MPG than EFI bikes.... Sportster evo's & TC's.
I may be hammered for the above observation, but this is what I see on a daily basis.
I do like not having to kick em over anymore, and it is nice to give it a minute or so to warm up and ride off without touching the choke, but I will still trade back to a carb given the right opportunity.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,541
Likes: 11
From: Elyria, OH
It is like buying a fuel injected weed eater. Why would you need it if the carb works great? Someone just found a way to fill their bank accounts and they went to EFI. I have an 883 carbed and a 1200 EFI. Really can't compare them because they are 2 completely different bikes. EFI should require less maintenance but has more potential for problems i.e. a lot more wiring, sensors, ECM, etc. I guess it is 6 of one or half dozon of the other. Although I have had no major problems with either one.
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,785
Likes: 5
From: Louisiana
I'm a firm believe that there's beauty in simplicity however since a majority of people are practically hands off when it comes to their own machines EFI is the most user-friendly option.
Carbed bike is running a little off? It can be corrected fairly easily by swapping out jets/needles/simple adjustments with hand tools to the carb in a short amount of time and for a fairly cheap cost.
EFI bike running a little off? Buy a programmer($400), hook it up and load the correct mapping. Still a little off? Take it to a shop with a dyno which will cost you a few hundred more $$$.
I was left with a bit of a sour taste in my mouth for EFI about 2 months ago. My Power Commander some how managed to take a dump and in the process fried my entire ECM. Had it not been covered under warranty it would've been over $800 to repair.
Bottomline a carb, if well maintained, will be just as reliable as EFI. When something goes wrong with a carb it can be repaired fairly easily on the side of the road if needed. When something goes wrong with EFI you might as well call for a tow and prepare your anus because this is going to get expensive.
Carbed bike is running a little off? It can be corrected fairly easily by swapping out jets/needles/simple adjustments with hand tools to the carb in a short amount of time and for a fairly cheap cost.
EFI bike running a little off? Buy a programmer($400), hook it up and load the correct mapping. Still a little off? Take it to a shop with a dyno which will cost you a few hundred more $$$.
I was left with a bit of a sour taste in my mouth for EFI about 2 months ago. My Power Commander some how managed to take a dump and in the process fried my entire ECM. Had it not been covered under warranty it would've been over $800 to repair.
Bottomline a carb, if well maintained, will be just as reliable as EFI. When something goes wrong with a carb it can be repaired fairly easily on the side of the road if needed. When something goes wrong with EFI you might as well call for a tow and prepare your anus because this is going to get expensive.
Tourer
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 376
Likes: 138
From: HEADLAND, ALABAMA
I've been running EFI for a couple years now on both my bikes. I don't think I have anything against EFI, I still prefer the sound of a carbed bike better.
I really prefer tuning a carbed bike over all the computer tuning hassle AND expense of an EFI.
And even though it seems most guys nowadays have their bikes for recreation, my bikes are my primary transportation, so it does matter to me what kind of MPG I get...both from a cost standpoint and from a range standpoint on how often I have to stop and fill up.
I do know of some EFI bikes that run strong and get as good or better mileage than carbed bikes, but they seem to be few and far between, and those guys spent a ton of $ to get them there.
Theory says EFI will be more efficient, but my real world experience is that most carbed bikes running strong get better MPG than EFI bikes.... Sportster evo's & TC's.
I may be hammered for the above observation, but this is what I see on a daily basis.
I do like not having to kick em over anymore, and it is nice to give it a minute or so to warm up and ride off without touching the choke, but I will still trade back to a carb given the right opportunity.
I really prefer tuning a carbed bike over all the computer tuning hassle AND expense of an EFI.
And even though it seems most guys nowadays have their bikes for recreation, my bikes are my primary transportation, so it does matter to me what kind of MPG I get...both from a cost standpoint and from a range standpoint on how often I have to stop and fill up.
I do know of some EFI bikes that run strong and get as good or better mileage than carbed bikes, but they seem to be few and far between, and those guys spent a ton of $ to get them there.
Theory says EFI will be more efficient, but my real world experience is that most carbed bikes running strong get better MPG than EFI bikes.... Sportster evo's & TC's.
I may be hammered for the above observation, but this is what I see on a daily basis.
I do like not having to kick em over anymore, and it is nice to give it a minute or so to warm up and ride off without touching the choke, but I will still trade back to a carb given the right opportunity.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,325
Likes: 7
From: SE Illinois
The only reason we have EFI on bikes is because of the EPA...it's that simple.
I miss the simplicity of tuning by replacing jets, adjusting the mix screw and adjusting idle with a simple screw adjustment. Now it takes expensive programmers and/or dyno time to do the same thing + all of the electrical components that have the potential to take a crap.
EFI is great until you want to modify your bike or something takes a crap.
I miss the simplicity of tuning by replacing jets, adjusting the mix screw and adjusting idle with a simple screw adjustment. Now it takes expensive programmers and/or dyno time to do the same thing + all of the electrical components that have the potential to take a crap.
EFI is great until you want to modify your bike or something takes a crap.
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Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 535
Likes: 2
From: Saint Johns, FL
Straight from the factory the EFI is smoother and gets better gas mileage. They will not necessarily get as good of performance, because they are designed to be efficient and meet EPA standards. Carbs do not meet new EPA standards because they are not efficient enough. EFI gets better gas mileage because it is more efficient.
Also if you go through elevation changes, carbs need to have setting and/or jets changed, EFI senses the O2 level changes and can adjust.
Virtually all cars have had EFI for more than 30 years, it works better and is more dependable overall.
Also if you go through elevation changes, carbs need to have setting and/or jets changed, EFI senses the O2 level changes and can adjust.
Virtually all cars have had EFI for more than 30 years, it works better and is more dependable overall.
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Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
From: Swansea, Wales
There are pros and cons to both if you ask me. Carbs idle nicer, sound better and are more maintenance friendly. FI makes v.cold running more hassle free and if you just want to change the mufflers it is much easier to get it running ok. As the old bikes wear out, carbs will become rarer of course. The arguments will continue but FI will inevitably win in the end!
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,785
Likes: 5
From: Louisiana
Straight from the factory the EFI is smoother and gets better gas mileage. They will not necessarily get as good of performance, because they are designed to be efficient and meet EPA standards. Carbs do not meet new EPA standards because they are not efficient enough. EFI gets better gas mileage because it is more efficient.
Also if you go through elevation changes, carbs need to have setting and/or jets changed, EFI senses the O2 level changes and can adjust.
Virtually all cars have had EFI for more than 30 years, it works better and is more dependable overall.
Also if you go through elevation changes, carbs need to have setting and/or jets changed, EFI senses the O2 level changes and can adjust.
Virtually all cars have had EFI for more than 30 years, it works better and is more dependable overall.
Someone correct me if Im wrong but the EFI system currently on Sportsters(and all Harleys) is a closed loop system. Meaning it WILL NOT adjust to changes in evelavation, humidity, air temp to correct the air/fuel ratio. So an EFI Sportster will experience the same changes in running conditions as a carbed model. The system doesn't allow for an "autocorrect" if that makes sense.
An open loop system(like on a car) will correct for these changes as well as some degree of correction for modifications but will generally still require proper tuning.