EFI, why, whats the problem
Thread Starter
|
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,377
Likes: 20
From: Kafar Hanusi
Seems I opened a real can of worms here, both sides have chimed in with good reasons for and against.
My 2 cents is I love and know the old system, I was a mechanic in the mid 80's, biked all the time even dead of winter, but the new ride 2008 1200 XLC rides dependable and fairly fuel efficient, if I had the software I would tune myself. Not a fan of hands off but leaves plenty of time for riding.
More thoughts are welcome.
.
All that said
My 2 cents is I love and know the old system, I was a mechanic in the mid 80's, biked all the time even dead of winter, but the new ride 2008 1200 XLC rides dependable and fairly fuel efficient, if I had the software I would tune myself. Not a fan of hands off but leaves plenty of time for riding.
More thoughts are welcome.
.
All that said
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,051
Likes: 7
First I'd like to say that is is nice to finally see some honest to goodness accuracy around here!
Next, rather than discuss a personal preference I'd like to take a look at what the high end racing industry uses for fuel management. Take apart a Formula One race car and you won't find a carb on the whole damned thing, and it's not due to EPA requirements. One a more timely note, 2012 will see the entire NASCAR stable running EFI for the first time ( http://www.nascar.com/news/111018/in...tor/index.html ) Of interest in that article is a passage discussing just how efficient their carbs are on those nascars, but only because they operate in a very narrow environmental range.
I don't know what they use in the high end motorcycle racing scene as I don't follow it at all, but as there's more money in F1, Indy, and NASCAR, there's also more money for R&D so I'd bet the motorcycle racing industry trickles down from the auto side, therefore EFI.
You can bet that just like how fans like to see baseball's being hit farther by big guys on steroids, racing fans want to see faster and faster vehicles, so if carbs were the thing, they'd be using them.
Next, rather than discuss a personal preference I'd like to take a look at what the high end racing industry uses for fuel management. Take apart a Formula One race car and you won't find a carb on the whole damned thing, and it's not due to EPA requirements. One a more timely note, 2012 will see the entire NASCAR stable running EFI for the first time ( http://www.nascar.com/news/111018/in...tor/index.html ) Of interest in that article is a passage discussing just how efficient their carbs are on those nascars, but only because they operate in a very narrow environmental range.
I don't know what they use in the high end motorcycle racing scene as I don't follow it at all, but as there's more money in F1, Indy, and NASCAR, there's also more money for R&D so I'd bet the motorcycle racing industry trickles down from the auto side, therefore EFI.
You can bet that just like how fans like to see baseball's being hit farther by big guys on steroids, racing fans want to see faster and faster vehicles, so if carbs were the thing, they'd be using them.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,146
Likes: 50
From: A barrier island in NJ
Hello all,
I've read a number of threads about newer sporties and many writers seem to be against EFI the system. Can anyone explain why the bias?
I remember those dam points, balancing carbs (had a honda 750-4, whatta-bitch) tuning & trying to ride with minimal power or advanced/ retarded timing.
To me it seems to be better, more reliable, even the fuel injection works.
Your thoughts please.
.
I've read a number of threads about newer sporties and many writers seem to be against EFI the system. Can anyone explain why the bias?
I remember those dam points, balancing carbs (had a honda 750-4, whatta-bitch) tuning & trying to ride with minimal power or advanced/ retarded timing.
To me it seems to be better, more reliable, even the fuel injection works.
Your thoughts please.
.
Road Master
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 958
Likes: 0
From: Hartford, WI
Once a carbed bike is jetted properly it's a case of "set it and forget it". The modern rubber mount Sportsters (2004-2006) are the most comfortable, have electronic ignition (no points), one carb (nothing to sync), and will easily give you 100,000 trouble-free miles if treated properly.
EFI is the future, no doubt. But that's because of the EPA and emissions and not much else. As fuel turns more "green" with ethanol and whatever they can think of, EFI will be a real headache. If you're looking to squeeze the most out of your engine with a larger bore, hopped up heads, and crazy cam, get EFI. If not, the simplicity of the carbed Sportster is the way to go - IMHO.
EFI is the future, no doubt. But that's because of the EPA and emissions and not much else. As fuel turns more "green" with ethanol and whatever they can think of, EFI will be a real headache. If you're looking to squeeze the most out of your engine with a larger bore, hopped up heads, and crazy cam, get EFI. If not, the simplicity of the carbed Sportster is the way to go - IMHO.
I don't see why. EFI can adjust. Remember E85? If set up, the truck can sense whatever fuel it has and adjust for it. Say you run regular gas and have to change to E85, the truck can detect it and change the pulse width and ignition curve for it if it is a flex fuel truck. I'd like to see what a carb would do with EFI. If I have lower octane than desired because of where I am, the EFI can adjust whereas I don't believe the carb can adjust when you have it set up for say 93 octane and you get crap gas from a station out in the boonies with the weird looking gas attendant who wears coveralls and plays the banjo on a swing.
Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,898
From: Bedford UK
I have both carb and EFI Harleys. My S&S motor has a carb and fancy electronic engine management that can detect and adjust for poor fuels to a degree, by adjusting timing. So carbs can cope with varying conditions to some degree, although I firmly believe that EFI is king on that front.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,146
Likes: 50
From: A barrier island in NJ
I'm not so sure about that. Our ATVs were set up for sea level since we are in WI when we bought them. Went to different altitudes and it didn't work as well. Someone from MN brought it up to Utah and it sucked till he got a shop to rejet it for the higher altitude. With my EFI unit, I don't have to worry about jetting especially when I go for a ride at say 10000 feet and the next day go to 5000 feet. The only reason you can set it and forget it is that you are not being very precise about the running of the machine. Race teams would be setting it every race for a very good reason.
I don't see why. EFI can adjust. Remember E85? If set up, the truck can sense whatever fuel it has and adjust for it. Say you run regular gas and have to change to E85, the truck can detect it and change the pulse width and ignition curve for it if it is a flex fuel truck. I'd like to see what a carb would do with EFI. If I have lower octane than desired because of where I am, the EFI can adjust whereas I don't believe the carb can adjust when you have it set up for say 93 octane and you get crap gas from a station out in the boonies with the weird looking gas attendant who wears coveralls and plays the banjo on a swing.
I don't see why. EFI can adjust. Remember E85? If set up, the truck can sense whatever fuel it has and adjust for it. Say you run regular gas and have to change to E85, the truck can detect it and change the pulse width and ignition curve for it if it is a flex fuel truck. I'd like to see what a carb would do with EFI. If I have lower octane than desired because of where I am, the EFI can adjust whereas I don't believe the carb can adjust when you have it set up for say 93 octane and you get crap gas from a station out in the boonies with the weird looking gas attendant who wears coveralls and plays the banjo on a swing.
As for E85 and, more importantly, any other future concoction contrived by the tree hugging EPA, internal combustion engines will all be affected and ultimately rendered useless as we know them - EFI or carbed.
Having experience with autos only for efi, open and closed loop are settings your ecm has in it that your system reaches when certain parameters are met. When bike is started it is in open loop until it reaches a certain operating temp and then it hits closed loop. Closed loop is where best mpg is. System will lock into open loop when there is a fault present. Think thats right lol!
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Club Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,481
Likes: 4
From: Georgia
I think it's resistance to change and lots of guys kid themselves that they know how to fix things. It makes a good conversation - but - not many that I know except a few are good with diagnosing and fixing things on the fly.