Since TT puts the ECM in open loop it makes it impossible to make real time changes.

 

Simply turn on or off the long term and short term fuel trims in the SW as required for your needs.

 

Your statment is incorrect, please re-read the quote you highlighted. Target Tune bikes run in closed loop; running the TT-Auto Tune is open loop, this is an application/tuning utility for tuning VE tables. It appears that some individuals posting are not completely familiar with the product, if it is their desire to learn the products and individual features Dynojet offers training on various levels.

 

I miss read that and thought he was saying TT was in CLOSED LOOP. I assume you can turn off closed loop in the SW. I never had a need to test that.

 

Why can't we learn on forums with a company that is suppose to have great customer service?

What Jamie is stating that when you are collecting data with AT-TT. It is not centering the VE tables with the fuel trims. That is how AT-Basic works.


So, TT is mapping VE's with one strategy and then it is running the bike in closed loop TT mode with a different strategy. This doesn't seem like the greatest of idea. If the 4.2's can handle running the bike and holding trims. Why can't it be used to map VE with. Just like Smart Tune, Vtune, or AT-basic? It's all the same except we have a 0-5 volt input instead of 0-1, right?

 

Well, as FM isn't DJ, I'm wondering which of those companies you expect to provide free technical training to the general public?

 

“TT-AT “ “it puts the ECM in open loop and allows you to run at your desired AF thruout the calibration for data collection and tune correction”

“running the TT-Auto Tune is open loop”

So when running TT_Auto tune, there is NO real time tuning going on, as it’s in open loop, which makes it the same as any other program on the market today from several suppliers that have been doing it this way for years.

This has not been your stated position for the past few years on this forum or any other forum, so why the sudden change? It appears that some individuals posting have been pulling a little bait and switch. You have said numerous times on forums DJ had to develop the TT code so the ECM could handle 5 volt sensors along with numerous other code changes and DJ has now confirmed that was just more bait and switch, all the code is and always has been stock in the HD ECM. So who is it, that is NOT completely familiar with the product?

 

Not looking for free technical training. Looking for someone to answer some pretty basic and simple questions. I don't think having a clear cut set of directions and a over all tuning guide for the hardware and software is too much to ask. It certainly isn't for other companies.


As a vendor for this product. It is hard to pin point when and how to sell the Target Tune portion. I can't imagine paying to learn a product so I can sell it for a price that I can walk away with $14 in my pocket. Besides with all the BS and misinfo associated with this product, and how/ who is marketing it. The integrity of the products comes into question and I really don't want to be involved with it.


Until just a couple of weeks ago. The VP of the product didn't even understand how it all came about and what and who wrote the code that allows all this to happen. Before that you had Jamie making wild statements about how he was a part of setting it all up and working in the code to make it all happen. He went into some detail over on HTT of all they had to do to get 4.2 sensor input to work with the Delphi ECM. Then that same VP learned and corrected himself. Which also exposed some of the BS a vendor was spewing.


Why can't we just get the straight facts so we can sell the thing with straight facts? The system does what it does, and like every other system out there. It has it's limitations, pros, and cons. Just like the other systems. When you start to recognize the limitation is when we can begin to work around them, address them, and this is when people truly learn on how to use the system the best way possible.


Holding the thing up on a pedestal and acting like it is the end all of tuning software and hardware is unrealistic and foolish, because the guys that listen to this and then use it become disappointed when reality sets in, and bad publicity always travels fast. No matter how much damage control is being bought.


Let's look at how it is pushed to what the intention of it was. It is a product made to hold fuel trims for the entire area of the AFR table. It is made to keep things trimmed in. So, I take it very suspect when someone continually states that a bike runs better than ever before with the TT unit. It should of ran that good once the VE's were mapped before a device was put on that is made to hold this tune with trims over time? Why would it need to be trimmed in again after taking 5 minutes to load a TT enabled calibration? Trims should already be centered, right?


Now it comes out that the AT-TT and AT-Pro collects and changes VE's the same way. With one big exception. AT-pro chooses the target for you and the AT-TT allows you to pick the target. It seems to me that it isn't so much the hardware than it is the software with the choice of picking your own target that is the big benefit here. If that is the benefit? It is a marketing nightmare to admit because it exposes flaws of how AT-basic and AT-Pro does things.

 

This is EXACTLY how I have stated how TT-Auto Tune works. I know this product inside and out, not only do I use it day in/day out in-house and supply tuning support to customers & dealers, TT was on our shop bikes for a year before Target Tune came even came to market.

I'm still not sure you understand that Target Tune and Target Tune Auto Tune are two different entities within the same product suite and they operate differently, one is a calibration configured for closed loop with wideband O2 control, the other is an application within the product for developing VE tables. A Target Tune flashed bike runs in Closed Loop, a bike running in Target Tune-Auto Tune mode runs in Open Loop; please show me one example where I have said that TT-Auto Tune is Closed Loop, simply not the case.

 

Jamie, does AT Basic also run in open loop to adjust VEs? Then revert to closed loop outside AT?

Can't believe how antagonistic this thread is- persistence is good though