DYNOJET: TT AT vs PV Basic AT
This is EXACTLY how I have stated how TT-Auto Tune works. I know this product inside and out, not only do I use it day in/day out in-house and supply tuning support to customers & dealers, TT was on our shop bikes for a year before Target Tune came even came to market.
I'm still not sure you understand that Target Tune and Target Tune Auto Tune are two different entities within the same product suite and they operate differently, one is a calibration configured for closed loop with wideband O2 control, the other is an application within the product for developing VE tables. A Target Tune flashed bike runs in Closed Loop, a bike running in Target Tune-Auto Tune mode runs in Open Loop; please show me one example where I have said that TT-Auto Tune is Closed Loop, simply not the case.
I'm still not sure you understand that Target Tune and Target Tune Auto Tune are two different entities within the same product suite and they operate differently, one is a calibration configured for closed loop with wideband O2 control, the other is an application within the product for developing VE tables. A Target Tune flashed bike runs in Closed Loop, a bike running in Target Tune-Auto Tune mode runs in Open Loop; please show me one example where I have said that TT-Auto Tune is Closed Loop, simply not the case.
Here are a few facts for you!
If in fact you EXACTLY know how it works, why have you stated that DJ had to write the CODE?
Why have you stated that YOU help DJ write/develop the code?
Now, DJ has admitted they NEVER wrote the code to start with and to this day use the STOCK code that came in the ECM!
So what EXACTLY is one to believe?
Look, TTS was on the market in 2008 doing this, where was PV and TT, TechnoResearch came in doing it, in 2009 and the HD SuperTuner came out doing it in 2010. Then in about 2011 EMS ecms came out making the same exact claims you have been saying about TT. Guess what, it didnt work then, just as it doesnt work now. So now its been stated that it will only hold a tune that is already correct to start with in Closed Loop and the STOCK ECM already does just that. I also understand that where there is smoke there is typically fire and in this case way too many people have been mislead as to what PV TT does and doesnt do.
As for your examples, just go back and read your old posts here and on HTT.
Club Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 5,816
Likes: 7,847
From: SE Louisiana
99% of us don't give a flying ***** who, where, what wrote the code.
I'm new to tuning Harley EFI, been hittin' it hard the last couple months,
my bike runs amazingly well being TT doesn't work and all. 43MPG @80MPH too.
I'm new to tuning Harley EFI, been hittin' it hard the last couple months,
my bike runs amazingly well being TT doesn't work and all. 43MPG @80MPH too.
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
.....and 99% just go to the next thread. Nobody says it doesn't work. Steve is a very smart man and if he is going to develop something that he can use to rough in calibrations. I bet it works pretty good for that purpose.
Not trying to start a fight, just trying to clear up what these products actually do. I have customers come in that are reading this stuff and want to buy A TT, install it and think that's it, plug and play. When I tell them it needs to be calibrated first, either by dyno tune or an auto tune of some sort they aren't accepting it.
Club Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,393
Likes: 2,060
From: N. Atlanta Burbs
As I have stated before and will again for all... Everyone has a right to post here and keep things civil so here we are. Past differences, positioning of product claims and grudges withstanding. Everyone is welcome here when following the rules and being an adult.
So, if you guys want to keep debating then fine but first sign of fighting I'll have no choice but to cool the thread for a bit while everyone regroups.
Thanks
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
So lets clear it up some in a simple EFI tuning manual way. Code is the instructions, and tables are the limits. Tune? That is what we have access to in the tables. The thing is writing itself.
Here are a few facts for you!
If in fact you EXACTLY know how it works, why have you stated that DJ had to write the CODE?
Why have you stated that YOU help DJ write/develop the code?
Now, DJ has admitted they NEVER wrote the code to start with and to this day use the STOCK code that came in the ECM!
So what EXACTLY is one to believe?
Look, TTS was on the market in 2008 doing this, where was PV and TT, TechnoResearch came in doing it, in 2009 and the HD SuperTuner came out doing it in 2010. Then in about 2011 EMS ecm’s came out making the same exact claims you have been saying about TT. Guess what, it didn’t work then, just as it doesn’t work now. So now it’s been stated that it will only hold a tune that is already correct to start with in Closed Loop and the STOCK ECM already does just that. I also understand that where there is smoke there is typically fire and in this case way too many people have been mislead as to what PV TT does and doesn’t do.
As for your examples, just go back and read your old posts here and on HTT.
If in fact you EXACTLY know how it works, why have you stated that DJ had to write the CODE?
Why have you stated that YOU help DJ write/develop the code?
Now, DJ has admitted they NEVER wrote the code to start with and to this day use the STOCK code that came in the ECM!
So what EXACTLY is one to believe?
Look, TTS was on the market in 2008 doing this, where was PV and TT, TechnoResearch came in doing it, in 2009 and the HD SuperTuner came out doing it in 2010. Then in about 2011 EMS ecm’s came out making the same exact claims you have been saying about TT. Guess what, it didn’t work then, just as it doesn’t work now. So now it’s been stated that it will only hold a tune that is already correct to start with in Closed Loop and the STOCK ECM already does just that. I also understand that where there is smoke there is typically fire and in this case way too many people have been mislead as to what PV TT does and doesn’t do.
As for your examples, just go back and read your old posts here and on HTT.
Q) If in fact you EXACTLY know how it works, why have you stated that DJ had to write the CODE?
A) I stated I know EXACTLY how Target Tune works, I have not stated DJ wrote the code, however they did make changes within the calibration binary to input the widebands into the ECM and make everything work with TT. These items could be defined as being within the "calibration" portion of the binary "code", if you are arguing either FM or Dynojet made reference to "code" you are arguing semantics.
Q) Why have you stated that YOU help DJ write/develop the code?
A) I have not stated this, I know nothing about writing code. My involvement was related to Target Tune calibration & hardware R&D.
As far as "your" other statements, you are certainly welcome to your opinion. I say tune with whichever product makes you happy
__________________
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
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While we're defining things, I'd like to hear the definition of "auto tune". That term implies that it does something on its own, which is far from accurate.
Club Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 5,816
Likes: 7,847
From: SE Louisiana
Didn't understand why the beef with TT, but from WOC's post about the misunderstanding from some of his customers, I see somewhat.
Where they come to the conclusion of plug and play, without dialing in the tune first, don't know, don't really care from this end.
The first thing I did when I decided I wanted to learn was read the TTS manuals.
I went with PV & TT, with no influence from anyone, figuring it would be easier for me to learn being new to tuning, than it would be jumping in with TTS, and I think I was right, but,, I do plenty homework and dedicated to learning and getting it right.