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Jun 29, 2016 | 11:59 AM

#111

hrdtail78

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From: Alorton, Illinois

Quote:

Originally Posted by whittlebeast

We really need to review the EFI fueling equation.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/MLVDemo/012%2...ngEquation.PNG

Harleys add in a couple of unique ones that are not included here but this is still the heart of all EFI tuning. It is all just math.

Andy

Can you show anything that validates that this is something that is actually used and not just something you came up with. Any proof that any Delphi system uses this or that a HD Delphi system uses it?

Until then. This shouldn't be put out like fact but Andy's theory.

Jun 29, 2016 | 12:01 PM

#112

hrdtail78

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From: Alorton, Illinois

Quote:

Originally Posted by whittlebeast

Does anyone know if the Pulse Width, as reported by the data loggers, is actually the PW that is at the injector. I am wondering if the Injector Dead Time is included in that number.

Base pulse width is how long the injector is energized.

Jun 29, 2016 | 01:03 PM

#113

whittlebeast

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OK so you are saying if the reported BPW is 8.86 ms and the injector dead time is 1 ms then the injector will be straying fuel for 8.86ms-1ms or 7.86ms Does that sound correct?

Jun 29, 2016 | 05:12 PM

#114

hrdtail78

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From: Alorton, Illinois

Quote:

Originally Posted by whittlebeast

Does anyone know if the Pulse Width, as reported by the data loggers, is actually the PW that is at the injector. I am wondering if the Injector Dead Time is included in that number.

Seems like a remedial question for somebody that has based their whole tuning strategy on pretty graphs based on how long the injector is staying open and MAP x RPM.

Jun 29, 2016 | 06:12 PM

#115

whittlebeast

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Not remedial at all.... This bit of information is critical for calculating the actual amount of fuel delivered from an injector at any given amount of time.

What about post 113?

Andy

Jun 29, 2016 | 06:52 PM

#116

hrdtail78

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Joined: Mar 2013

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From: Alorton, Illinois

Quote:

Originally Posted by whittlebeast

Not remedial at all.... This bit of information is critical for calculating the actual amount of fuel delivered from an injector at any given amount of time.

What about post 113?

Andy

So, you scatter plots are showing actually what?

I understand that Andy, and if you really want to know. You have to use flow meters. Just like everybody else has found out. You are never going to be able to pin down the actual dead time of an injector. Let alone both of the injectors.

Harley tries to do this with miles to empty. Might be close on a cross county holding cruising speeds but they are all jacked up when pull them from the dyno.

Jun 29, 2016 | 07:48 PM

#117

whittlebeast

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You have to understand flow before you can understand flow control. So back to post 113. Does that sound correct?

Jun 29, 2016 | 08:29 PM

#118

hrdtail78

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From: Alorton, Illinois

Quote:

Originally Posted by whittlebeast

You have to understand flow before you can understand flow control.

I disagree. Most people know how to turn on and off a hose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by whittlebeast

So back to post 113. Does that sound correct?

You tell me. Nobody else is getting involved.

If we knew the dead time of the injector and if it was reported or not. It would be easy to set a global filter on this channel, but this would just shift indicated data from the channel. To get anywhere. We would need to model the injector for thermo resistance vs volt/pressure vs manifold pressure. Then we would be getting there. ....and it would still be only a model.

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Jun 30, 2016 | 06:17 AM

#119

whittlebeast

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Joined: Mar 2007

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Here is four different Sporty tunes. The first is tuned with Narrow bands and mostly using autotunes.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...d%20Sporty.png

Now two Target Tune equipped bikes.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...Sporty%202.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...d%20Sporty.png

And a Dyno tuned TTS bike with the wideband option being used.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...d%20Sporty.png

Andy

Jun 30, 2016 | 08:02 AM

#120

Gordon61

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Joined: Jun 2015

Posts: 1,325

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From: Edinburgh UK

Quote:

Originally Posted by whittlebeast

By all means tell me to keep my nose out if I'm not getting what you are discussing, but here is my graph ...is there anything wrong or worse than any of the 4 that you put up. I see a strange kick on the rear cylinder between 300 and 400K airflow ...is that a problem

(note I've added +10 to the rear cylinder is why it is higher on the chart, otherwise the two would be pretty muck on top of each other within a couple of % duty cycle)

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