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Old Aug 1, 2016 | 05:03 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by ultra_classic
so adaptive [long term] will show 100 while integrator [short term] is hunting for the correct cell [state]?
You have to know the state of the Adaptive system to answer that. IF the Adaptive is active and the Integrator value goes beyond its setup point the Adaptive will adjust. Once it has adjusted, it will show that value until the next time its requirements are there and can adjust again. By Default the Adaptive is set to start at 100.
 
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Old Aug 1, 2016 | 05:21 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by Gordon61
Silly question time - if the closed loop Integrator is capable of managing a variance of +-25% and Adaptive learned values +-10% ...why do we need adaptives

Or do some people think they are not needed, hence them not implemented?
Let make an example of why. This example assumes that the Adaptive system has been properly setup!

Engine is running and the Integrator has adjusted to 125 it's upper limit from the factory. Now the engine speed and/or load is changed such that the Integrator has to readjust down to 75. If you hold it steady that is going to take time and you will notice the engine not running well as it gets to 75 thing get happy again. Now change the engine speed and/or load back to the old spot and it does it all over again. So each and everytime you change the engine it has to chase in. Now add Adaptive that takes the Integrator and keeps it near 100 and it learns the balance and stores it in the Adaptive cell, now change engine speed again and it learns the new value and stores that in its new cell. So you then chage engine speed back and it uses the store value right away! Engine runs smooth and the Integrator doesn't have to do anything.

Hope that helps you understand it all.
 
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Old Aug 1, 2016 | 05:32 PM
  #143  
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that's a good explanation, thanks

If we expand on that - what if a few cells are all in the same Adaptive block, and one cell needs 125 CLI and another 75
 
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Old Aug 1, 2016 | 05:54 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by Gordon61
that's a good explanation, thanks

If we expand on that - what if a few cells are all in the same Adaptive block, and one cell needs 125 CLI and another 75
It runs bad and You learn how to tune better!

IF you think about it the system has been designed to keep an engine in tune, that was tuned properly to start with. What we have done is to use those feature to get an engine back into tune but it does have its limits you have to learn and understand how to use to your advantage.
 
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Old Aug 1, 2016 | 06:27 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by Gordon61
that's a good explanation, thanks

If we expand on that - what if a few cells are all in the same Adaptive block, and one cell needs 125 CLI and another 75

You just hit on the key right there. If a couple cells in the block are way off it effects the whole block which can throw the whole area out of tune. That's why VE's need to be properly calibrated to start with.

It's also become apparent as we learn that one of the big factors in all this is how the third party software interprets the data it receives from the sensors. I'd like to know more about PV reporting the adaptive and integrator values in tenths when the HD Delphi system only knows it as whole values
 
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Old Aug 1, 2016 | 06:41 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by Wide Open Cycles
You just hit on the key right there. If a couple cells in the block are way off it effects the whole block which can throw the whole area out of tune. That's why VE's need to be properly calibrated to start with.

It's also become apparent as we learn that one of the big factors in all this is how the third party software interprets the data it receives from the sensors. I'd like to know more about PV reporting the adaptive and integrator values in tenths when the HD Delphi system only knows it as whole values
I do not know for sure what they are doing to get there but if we look at it and say take the raw value and express it as percent. 100 = 1.00 This would give you a range for the Integrator of ~0.75 - 1.25 and if you round that to tenths you loose resolution, so I do not think that is the answer. How you get to the numbers the member posted just doesn't add up in any form. MAYBE DJ filters the raw data and sends out what they think is right after filtering, then the third party program tries to filter it more again from the already filtered numbers. Whatever it is, It isn't right!
 
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Old Aug 1, 2016 | 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Cole
I do not know for sure what they are doing to get there but if we look at it and say take the raw value and express it as percent. 100 = 1.00 This would give you a range for the Integrator of ~0.75 - 1.25 and if you round that to tenths you loose resolution, so I do not think that is the answer. How you get to the numbers the member posted just doesn't add up in any form. MAYBE DJ filters the raw data and sends out what they think is right after filtering, then the third party program tries to filter it more again from the already filtered numbers. Whatever it is, It isn't right!
Are you aware weather or not the automotive world uses tenths? I'm wondering if it is fine that way because PV was developed by a company that caters to car/truck market and not HE's. I'm curious if the Delphi/GM systems use tenths.
 
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Old Aug 1, 2016 | 07:10 PM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by Wide Open Cycles
Are you aware weather or not the automotive world uses tenths? I'm wondering if it is fine that way because PV was developed by a company that caters to car/truck market and not HE's. I'm curious if the Delphi/GM systems use tenths.
If it is express as % the car world does 1.00 but it is in hundreths not tenths as you loose to much resolution rounding! They also give the raw values too in the car world.

Did anyone else see the newest Spy photo of the 2017 CVO??

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.p...msg1395261#new
 
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Old Aug 1, 2016 | 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Cole
I do not know for sure what they are doing to get there but if we look at it and say take the raw value and express it as percent. 100 = 1.00 This would give you a range for the Integrator of ~0.75 - 1.25 and if you round that to tenths you loose resolution, so I do not think that is the answer. How you get to the numbers the member posted just doesn't add up in any form. MAYBE DJ filters the raw data and sends out what they think is right after filtering, then the third party program tries to filter it more again from the already filtered numbers. Whatever it is, It isn't right!
Steve, WOC, I took the same log from the pv, loaded it into WinPep 8 data center software to have a look. There too the values in CLI and AFF were carrying 2 decimal points. I wonder if DJ is doing something different.
 
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Old Aug 1, 2016 | 08:03 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by Wmitz
Steve, WOC, I took the same log from the pv, loaded it into WinPep 8 data center software to have a look. There too the values in CLI and AFF were carrying 2 decimal points. I wonder if DJ is doing something different.
What were the range of the numbers in WinPep 8? If you took the numbers and did a running averaged them you could get to something like that and that would tell us that DJ is NOT storing raw data, yet some type of processed data.

An example could be
101
100
99
98
96
----
494 / 5 = 98.80
 
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