No Device: Auto-Tune... Does it really exist?
Thread Starter
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Club Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,393
Likes: 2,060
From: N. Atlanta Burbs
Auto-Tune... Does it really exist?
This will be an interesting topic and has been recently brought up by existing posts. The question is as old as the act of tuning.
Is there really such a thing as an Auto-Tune tuning device?
No? Why not??
.
Is there really such a thing as an Auto-Tune tuning device?
No? Why not??
.
HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,478
Likes: 4,754
Auto is short for Automatic
1. Capable of operating without external control or intervention.
2. Done out of habit or without conscious thought.
Tuning is just that, tuning. The best definition of Tuning is making the engine run correctly in all conditions. That means setting ALL the adjustments properly!
So the key here is the word Auto or Automatic and by all definitions of the word there is NO product on the market today that functions this way regardless of what your internet sales guys is trying to sell you!
1. Capable of operating without external control or intervention.
2. Done out of habit or without conscious thought.
Tuning is just that, tuning. The best definition of Tuning is making the engine run correctly in all conditions. That means setting ALL the adjustments properly!
So the key here is the word Auto or Automatic and by all definitions of the word there is NO product on the market today that functions this way regardless of what your internet sales guys is trying to sell you!
Thread Starter
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Club Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,393
Likes: 2,060
From: N. Atlanta Burbs
Mr. Cole
Your user group is "Product Expert". For those who do not know you could you give us a brief of your experience as to what qualifies you as an expert to reinforce your post please?
.
Your user group is "Product Expert". For those who do not know you could you give us a brief of your experience as to what qualifies you as an expert to reinforce your post please?
.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 140
From: Edinburgh UK
Auto is short for Automatic
1. Capable of operating without external control or intervention.
2. Done out of habit or without conscious thought.
Tuning is just that, tuning. The best definition of Tuning is making the engine run correctly in all conditions. That means setting ALL the adjustments properly!
So the key here is the word Auto or Automatic and by all definitions of the word there is NO product on the market today that functions this way regardless of what your internet sales guys is trying to sell you!
1. Capable of operating without external control or intervention.
2. Done out of habit or without conscious thought.
Tuning is just that, tuning. The best definition of Tuning is making the engine run correctly in all conditions. That means setting ALL the adjustments properly!
So the key here is the word Auto or Automatic and by all definitions of the word there is NO product on the market today that functions this way regardless of what your internet sales guys is trying to sell you!
In regard to AUTO 2. does not apply in this context - that reference is to an animal reaction or learned response to something. So lets just stick to 1.
Now, given that you tell the little box to go off and do something, and there isn't a little imp inside (a nod to any Pratchett fans there
) the box IS Automatically doing something.The argument is in the manufacturers and sellers of these boxes as to the use of the word TUNE
If these boxes do not Automatically Tune your bike, as per their advertised function, everyone in the UK wants their money back under the Sale of Goods Act and miss selling
HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,478
Likes: 4,754
Well let's look at what people sell as auto tuners. T-max which the user selecet the correct calibration then has to take the learned values and reinstall them into the ECM for fuel corrections only, Not Auto as you have to do it. PV which requires you to collect data, process data and re-flash all by the user, Not Auto as you have to do it. PV-TT which requires the user to put into special tuning mode, collect data then reflash modified data back to the ECM, Not Auto as you have to do it.
If something was Auto it would mean, hook it up one time and go, your done, as it will take care of itself. Anything short of that is NOT Auto-Tuning.
If something was Auto it would mean, hook it up one time and go, your done, as it will take care of itself. Anything short of that is NOT Auto-Tuning.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 140
From: Edinburgh UK
Would we argue, by that exact same reasoning, that an automatic gearbox is not automatic ...because you have to start the engine and put it into drive?
Fair enough I had to switch it into that mode ...hell, I even had to plug it in and download a map so you're right it's not that automated but they do something, it certainly ain't me anyway.
Unless you are about to suggest that automation should be programmed into the ECU from the factory and all we have to do is pop in a new cam and just ride, I wasn't sure where you were going with the "Auto" bit rather than the "Tune" bit, sorry.
They are doing an Auto something but I wholeheartedly agree its not an Auto Tune
(toddles off to sit in the naughty corner)
Fair enough I had to switch it into that mode ...hell, I even had to plug it in and download a map so you're right it's not that automated but they do something, it certainly ain't me anyway.
Unless you are about to suggest that automation should be programmed into the ECU from the factory and all we have to do is pop in a new cam and just ride, I wasn't sure where you were going with the "Auto" bit rather than the "Tune" bit, sorry.
They are doing an Auto something but I wholeheartedly agree its not an Auto Tune
(toddles off to sit in the naughty corner)
HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,478
Likes: 4,754
Would we argue, by that exact same reasoning, that an automatic gearbox is not automatic ...because you have to start the engine and put it into drive?
Fair enough I had to switch it into that mode ...hell, I even had to plug it in and download a map so you're right it's not that automated but they do something, it certainly ain't me anyway.
Unless you are about to suggest that automation should be programmed into the ECU from the factory and all we have to do is pop in a new cam and just ride, I wasn't sure where you were going with the "Auto" bit rather than the "Tune" bit, sorry.
They are doing an Auto something but I wholeheartedly agree its not an Auto Tune
(toddles off to sit in the naughty corner)
Fair enough I had to switch it into that mode ...hell, I even had to plug it in and download a map so you're right it's not that automated but they do something, it certainly ain't me anyway.
Unless you are about to suggest that automation should be programmed into the ECU from the factory and all we have to do is pop in a new cam and just ride, I wasn't sure where you were going with the "Auto" bit rather than the "Tune" bit, sorry.
They are doing an Auto something but I wholeheartedly agree its not an Auto Tune
(toddles off to sit in the naughty corner)
I agree that all the EFI tuners today do something and we (TTS) were the first to do it, to a Factory HD ECM, but there is no way in h3ll I would call it Auto-Tune. We named it V-tune and what the process does, are tuning aides. They take the data and calibration and calculate new values, to speed the tuning process. V-tune processes EGR, Spark and Fuel for you but you still have to do the rest of it. None of the others do as much but they love to push it as Auto-Tune.
Glad to finally get some company (sitting in the naughty corner)
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 140
From: Edinburgh UK
Well I'll admit that I was a thick as two short planks in that regard when I bought mine, I thought Autotune meant what it said on the tin ...that I didn't need to take it to a pro.
Maybe I didn't need to take it but it sure didn't run very well at all.
Problem for me was there are no tuners for miles and miles so I was kind of banking on it doing what it said on the tin. Otherwise I may never have changed anything.
I've been tuning my bike more than just riding it for the last two years and I'm still to do timing somehow. Fortunately I'm a bit of a geek and like all this stuff so it was fun.
Maybe I didn't need to take it but it sure didn't run very well at all.
Problem for me was there are no tuners for miles and miles so I was kind of banking on it doing what it said on the tin. Otherwise I may never have changed anything.
I've been tuning my bike more than just riding it for the last two years and I'm still to do timing somehow. Fortunately I'm a bit of a geek and like all this stuff so it was fun.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
Without getting down to all the details between each tuning unit. Tuning with a flash base tuner is all the same. You load a calibration. You collect data. You use that data to improve on the previous calibration. You load new calibration.
I don't think this could be considered auto tune. The actual auto tune system is the ECM working with long term/ short term fuel trims, and the other closed loop systems.
I don't think this could be considered auto tune. The actual auto tune system is the ECM working with long term/ short term fuel trims, and the other closed loop systems.
Intermediate
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 49
Likes: 55
From: Madison, Ga
But it depends on how you define auto-tune, right? AT doesn't have to mean a device to automagically optimize all aspects of your engine. Just like the point made about the automatic transmission, certain elements of a multistep process no longer require human intervention. 'Tune' is also open to interpretation - used as a noun as in a complete 'tune' for my bike, or a verb as in 'I tuned my VE'?