You know, if you would have left this condescending part out you would've had a really helpful post. But I do thank you for the second part of your post, which was very helpful

Besides, if you get annoyed reading the same question posted multiple times, you're not going to enjoy these forums very long.

I thought I was clear when I said that I wasn't asking how to use FP3, but instead was asking how the autotune algorithm actually worked. The second half of your post, and another one above, gave excellent insight on that. Thank you.

And I do like the autotune feature of the FP3. It's one of the more affordable auto tune solutions out there. The other thing the FP3 has is that it's a closed loop tuner. It uses the oxygen sensors. I'm a believer that if you use all the sensor data available, and you have a well designed auto tune algorithm, you will get the best tune.

 

The first part was not meant to be condescending in the slightest, it was intended to emphasise the part about auto tuning which was the point of the second part. It was intended to draw your (and equally importantly, any other readers) attention to recent discussion on auto tuning and in particular a few recent posts on just how good the FP3 auto tune process actually was, for certain people. I'm glad you found that useful.

see hrdtail's response, I actually chose not to point out the obvious

However, I did detect a hint of fanboy in the original post but gave it the benefit of the doubt.

Unfortunately this kind of confirms what I thought ...because they ALL use the oxygen sensors (some can even use wideband sensors ...but not the FP3). And, if algorithm and data rates and ability to tune more than just the VE tables is important to you then there is actually a more obvious offering to go for than the FP3

I believe in balance of information. Apologies if you do not like that kind of post, just trying to balance fan boy comments which I do not think helps anyone, sorry if that disagrees with your outlook.

My experience with forums is fine by the way ...it goes all the way back to IRC, Bulletin Boards, chat rooms and 9600 baud modems, I know how to read between the lines

 

"then there is actually a more obvious offering to go for than the FP3..."

I'd like to know what you're referring to here..?? What offering do you speak of? I'm not a tuner, just a rider who doesn't want to fork over more money to the MOCO unless necessary.

 

Have a read of the Which Tuner do you like sticky thread, but as I understand it, the TTS for example can help tune the VE tables, spark timing, EGR/CDE, and Cam intake opening and closing tooth timing. It also captures logs that you can analyse and post on groups like this so that others can see what is going on and possibly help you. These things I realised are important because if you are an idiot like me that doesn't know what he is doing you may end up flailing around in the dark asking for help

The best advice I've read was if you have a good dyno tuner somewhere, get what they recommend and take it there to be tuned.

But that's not what the OP was asking, sorry

 

I was just curious about how the FP3 works, that's all. Not about any other tuner. Not about how to install it. Just how its' auto tune feature works - and if you started with different maps on the exact same bike, could/would you end up with the same results after auto tune. That's all. I'm not sure why you would read the white space between the lines, when I stated it clearly in black:

"if you're going to run through a few auto tune cycles, does it it matter what map you start with? "

If you're as savvy of a forum participant as you imply, then you ought to know the dangers of reading between the lines in emails and posts. Read the black. It's easier.

As for longevity behind a keyboard, Google the following: Arpanet, Usenet groups and 1200 baud. But you've got me on "fanboy". I have no idea what that is, nor do I care to.

 

No worries, I was just pointing out that for some its auto tune feature didn't seem to be working well and one of their techs had recommended the user NOT to use it ...which kind of flies in the face of all the other advice out there.

Mind you, Arpanet was a private network, the pre-cursor to the Internet, and Usenet came after bulletin boards. 1200 baud ...gads that was for leased lines and dedicated copper point to point stuff ...I'm now shuddering at the recollection of rs232 and 422 and X25 ...happy days eh cheers

 

Actually, one thing that is missing in here is probably an FP3 sticky thread, there are enough people using them

 

IMO there is a more obvious choice is the TTS. Yes, it is more money but you get what you pay for. A PDF file of complete calibration description. A tool that helps you pick a starting cal. A PDF that is a "Tuning Guide" a comment file for each table, Help files, and there is a TTS for dummies on this forum. Last but certainly not least. The programs have more useful tables and useful tools that no other tuner is even coming close to. Plus the guy that wrote the original code for the ECM, and SERT tuner owns it, created it and is on this forum. There is no other tuner on the market that has anybody that actually writes in the code representing on any of these forums.



I see tuning as the make it or break it portion of any modification you are going to make to a FI bike. This isn't were I would be looking to save 45 bucks. BUT then again. My favorite grips cost 10 bucks a pair and I can't hardly talk anybody else into them.


If people want to do their own investigating. A topic that I haven't touched is the speed they collect data at and how fast can blue tooth be ran on frames a second.


I understand this isn't on topic, and not what the OP asked.


To the OP


I assume you are asking how the FP3 auto tunes VE tables since that all it does automatically. It does it just like the tuners that came out before it. It centers the VE tables using the fuel trims. Does it use long and short term? That's a question for the manufacture because I don't know. Or this might be able to answered by you. Do you have to load a special calibration into the bike in order to auto tune or can you auto tune off the regular, run down the road calibration? The next question would be how the filters are set up. When where and how it is using the data it has collected. This is going to be different in-between every manufacture, and kind of the secrete ingredient the manufactures are not going to talk about in to much detail.


I understand this isn't the most straight answer, but that is how it is in the tuning world. It isn't straight forward.


HTH

 

I have the fp3 on my 2013 Switchback with SE air cleaner and Nightstick, this is what I did.

Loaded the map for SE cleaner and pro pipe and standard baffle.
Bike ran well, as in cooler...easier starting at 34deg in the morning...pulled a lot better through gears. had a bit of decal pop so went into tuner and adjusted that. All good.

Copied that map and then ran an auto tune, had the phone on bars so I could monitor the cells as they loaded.
Probebly took 3 1/2 tanks before I loaded close to 85% of cells so I then flashed this.
The bike did run better but not as good as I thought it would, fuel consumption is good, it does run that bit smoother and in the higher rpm range is does pull harder.

I then made a copy of the 1st map again but loaded the map with pro pipe and race baffle.
No difference at all! Until I ran an auto tune!.
Again ran through about 4 tanks of fuel, filled close to 80% of cells.
The bike does run a lot better, as in cooler....realy nice throttle response...pulls a lot harder...and exhaust note seems deeper. I am very happy with it.

I am no tuning expert, but trying diff maps as a base does seem to work.
Hope this helps.

Dave.