Help!
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 353
Likes: 32
From: New Brunswick Canada
Thanks a bunch Vernal, I have the service manual and have looked at the wiring as well.
I haven't gotten into it very deep yet because last week I couldn't get it to re-create the problem after I swapped the relay.
The starter does not crank when the kill switch is off, and now that you mention it and get my brain headed down the right path I believe that is going to point me to the start button/relay circuit. As soon as I hit the kill switch it stops cranking, if the solenoid was stuck then it would keep cranking even if the kill switch was off wouldn't it?
From what I see the starter is powered directly from the battery through the solenoid contacts, the starter itself is grounded through it's mount to the engine.
That being said if the solenoid contacts were welded it'd crank just as soon as I turned the ignition on and the kill switch would have no effect.
This leads me to the relay or the button, I'm fairly confident I've ruled out the relay so I'm going after the button.
Thanks again! I'll hopefully have it sorted soon!
I haven't gotten into it very deep yet because last week I couldn't get it to re-create the problem after I swapped the relay.
The starter does not crank when the kill switch is off, and now that you mention it and get my brain headed down the right path I believe that is going to point me to the start button/relay circuit. As soon as I hit the kill switch it stops cranking, if the solenoid was stuck then it would keep cranking even if the kill switch was off wouldn't it?
From what I see the starter is powered directly from the battery through the solenoid contacts, the starter itself is grounded through it's mount to the engine.
That being said if the solenoid contacts were welded it'd crank just as soon as I turned the ignition on and the kill switch would have no effect.
This leads me to the relay or the button, I'm fairly confident I've ruled out the relay so I'm going after the button.
Thanks again! I'll hopefully have it sorted soon!
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,399
Likes: 92
From: ny
You mean the small relay in the fuse panel right?
I actually swapped it out with the brake light relay (they are identical)
I figured I'd try it and see, when I did the swap that night everything seemed to be fine again so I thought I had it licked. Figured I'd pick up a new relay and all would be good.
Then as I mentioned this morning it's doing it again so now I have to assume it's not the relay.
I actually swapped it out with the brake light relay (they are identical)
I figured I'd try it and see, when I did the swap that night everything seemed to be fine again so I thought I had it licked. Figured I'd pick up a new relay and all would be good.
Then as I mentioned this morning it's doing it again so now I have to assume it's not the relay.
My bad I didn't realize you already tried a new relay.
Let us know what the problem was.
Club Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 7,683
Likes: 8,415
From: Utah
Thanks a bunch Vernal, I have the service manual and have looked at the wiring as well.
I haven't gotten into it very deep yet because last week I couldn't get it to re-create the problem after I swapped the relay.
The starter does not crank when the kill switch is off, and now that you mention it and get my brain headed down the right path I believe that is going to point me to the start button/relay circuit. As soon as I hit the kill switch it stops cranking, if the solenoid (RELAY) was stuck then it would keep cranking even if the kill switch was off wouldn't it?
From what I see the starter is powered directly from the battery through the solenoid contacts, the starter itself is grounded through it's mount to the engine.
That being said if the solenoid contacts were welded it'd crank just as soon as I turned the ignition on and the kill switch would have no effect.
This leads me to the relay or the button, I'm fairly confident I've ruled out the relay so I'm going after the button.
Thanks again! I'll hopefully have it sorted soon!
I haven't gotten into it very deep yet because last week I couldn't get it to re-create the problem after I swapped the relay.
The starter does not crank when the kill switch is off, and now that you mention it and get my brain headed down the right path I believe that is going to point me to the start button/relay circuit. As soon as I hit the kill switch it stops cranking, if the solenoid (RELAY) was stuck then it would keep cranking even if the kill switch was off wouldn't it?
From what I see the starter is powered directly from the battery through the solenoid contacts, the starter itself is grounded through it's mount to the engine.
That being said if the solenoid contacts were welded it'd crank just as soon as I turned the ignition on and the kill switch would have no effect.
This leads me to the relay or the button, I'm fairly confident I've ruled out the relay so I'm going after the button.
Thanks again! I'll hopefully have it sorted soon!
If you turn the Ign on and the starter engages and then stops when you hit the kill switch, (Ign still on) the culprit is most likely the start button. If the relay contacts were closed it would crank with the kill switch off.
Let us know how it turns out
Good Luck
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 353
Likes: 32
From: New Brunswick Canada
So here is my update:
Took the switch housing apart and pulled the switches out, the switch is actually sealed up pretty good but I hit it with the contact cleaner. After I hit the button a bunch of times and let it return hard under the spring the problem went away.... For a while...
Riding to work this morning, sitting in traffic and all of a sudden the starter starts cranking.....
If I release the clutch just a bit (enough to open the micro switch) it stops. When the bike is in gear the cluch switch keeps the starter from running, as soon as I put the bike in neutral it immediately starts cranking.
I either have a bad switch or a wire chafed somewhere.
Time to do some more investigating. Lol
I will win this battle!!!
Took the switch housing apart and pulled the switches out, the switch is actually sealed up pretty good but I hit it with the contact cleaner. After I hit the button a bunch of times and let it return hard under the spring the problem went away.... For a while...
Riding to work this morning, sitting in traffic and all of a sudden the starter starts cranking.....
If I release the clutch just a bit (enough to open the micro switch) it stops. When the bike is in gear the cluch switch keeps the starter from running, as soon as I put the bike in neutral it immediately starts cranking.
I either have a bad switch or a wire chafed somewhere.
Time to do some more investigating. Lol
I will win this battle!!!
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 353
Likes: 32
From: New Brunswick Canada
Another update:
Weird things happening, problem is intermittent and proving to be a real pain in the a$$!
Anyway I'm showing 10 volts from the circuit that powers the relay coil, press the start button and it goes to 12. When I release it voltage drops very slowly to around 10.4
I'm not very good with dc systems but I still think the button is screwed.
Voltage drops to nothing when the kill switch is shut off.
I removed the fairing front and checked the wires coming out of the bars (internally wired) I see no evidence of chafing there, wiggled everything and could not get it to crank the starter. The wires are in good shape and covered by the factory wrap where they exit the bars.
This has to be a bad button..... Doesn't it???
Weird things happening, problem is intermittent and proving to be a real pain in the a$$!
Anyway I'm showing 10 volts from the circuit that powers the relay coil, press the start button and it goes to 12. When I release it voltage drops very slowly to around 10.4
I'm not very good with dc systems but I still think the button is screwed.
Voltage drops to nothing when the kill switch is shut off.
I removed the fairing front and checked the wires coming out of the bars (internally wired) I see no evidence of chafing there, wiggled everything and could not get it to crank the starter. The wires are in good shape and covered by the factory wrap where they exit the bars.
This has to be a bad button..... Doesn't it???
Club Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 7,683
Likes: 8,415
From: Utah
Here are a few things you can check.
With everything off and bike in neutral pull the Start relay.
Check the 4 sockets for 12V DC.
Turn the Bike Ignition Switch on and leave the kill switch off look at figure 3-4 and the Start relay socket
1 = NO contact going to starter solenoid - bottom left
2 = Relay coil from start button - bottom right
3 = 12V from Ignition switch - top right
5 = relay coil to ECM - top left
The positions Top and Bottom are how it is on my 2012.
Socket 3 NO Contact 12V from the Ignition Switch should have 12V and all the others 0V.
Turn Kill swich to run
Same as above socket 3 should have 12V all others 0V
If you show 12V on socket 2 from the start button without pressing it you have a bad switch.
Unplug Connector 22 and check continuity between 6 and 4 should be open.
Started writing this and went off to do something else and now see your newest post.
I think your start button is bad, try a new one.
With everything off and bike in neutral pull the Start relay.
Check the 4 sockets for 12V DC.
Turn the Bike Ignition Switch on and leave the kill switch off look at figure 3-4 and the Start relay socket
1 = NO contact going to starter solenoid - bottom left
2 = Relay coil from start button - bottom right
3 = 12V from Ignition switch - top right
5 = relay coil to ECM - top left
The positions Top and Bottom are how it is on my 2012.
Socket 3 NO Contact 12V from the Ignition Switch should have 12V and all the others 0V.
Turn Kill swich to run
Same as above socket 3 should have 12V all others 0V
If you show 12V on socket 2 from the start button without pressing it you have a bad switch.
Unplug Connector 22 and check continuity between 6 and 4 should be open.
Started writing this and went off to do something else and now see your newest post.
I think your start button is bad, try a new one.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 353
Likes: 32
From: New Brunswick Canada
Thanks again Vernal.
If it's not the switch its a short.
I need to get to the connectors that run up to the switches, this means stereo comes out and all that crap! Lol
I'm thinking on installing a pushbutton temporarily to get me through the season, then I can take it apart once I put it in storage.
Even changing the switch is a big job, internally wired handlebars seemed like a good idea at the time.
If it's not the switch its a short.
I need to get to the connectors that run up to the switches, this means stereo comes out and all that crap! Lol
I'm thinking on installing a pushbutton temporarily to get me through the season, then I can take it apart once I put it in storage.
Even changing the switch is a big job, internally wired handlebars seemed like a good idea at the time.
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Thread Starter
|
Tourer
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 353
Likes: 32
From: New Brunswick Canada
Well I installed a manual start button last night, pulled the relay so I can ride for now.
I do think it's the start button, just a big job to fix and I don't have the time right now.
I do think it's the start button, just a big job to fix and I don't have the time right now.
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