NO front brakes!
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,432
Likes: 290
From: FL
I suggest that you buy the new $48 part that is needed not the used ebay part your considering looking for.
I suggest that you install the new part and flush the entire system, install new pads and bleed it.
I suggest you don't waste your time writing to the NHTSB and waste your time and theirs about a problem that you are likely responsible for since you don't know what the maintenance was prior to purchasing your 8 year old motorcycle.
I suggest that next time you buy a used motorcycle that you perform a full maintenance on it.. if you would have done that here you probably wouldn't be having the problem AND it would actually be time to do it again.
I suggest that you install the new part and flush the entire system, install new pads and bleed it.
I suggest you don't waste your time writing to the NHTSB and waste your time and theirs about a problem that you are likely responsible for since you don't know what the maintenance was prior to purchasing your 8 year old motorcycle.
I suggest that next time you buy a used motorcycle that you perform a full maintenance on it.. if you would have done that here you probably wouldn't be having the problem AND it would actually be time to do it again.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,459
Likes: 2,896
From: Oklahoma
I can easily understand accepting responsibility that this malfunction may be related to lack of recommended maintenance but I CAN'T get past the idea that that the failure mode is TOTAL loss of braking, not just loss of ABS protection. The GM ignition switch failure caused only APPARENT loss of braking and steering (both functions could be manually overridden) yet millions of switches are being replaced and millions of dollars are being paid out for law suits. Harley made a big mistake in this design and if it won't revise it perhaps the DOT should exert some pressure. I just can't understand anyone defending an ABS brake system that can cause total brake failure.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,846
Likes: 173
From: Simi Valley, CA
I can easily understand accepting responsibility that this malfunction may be related to lack of recommended maintenance but I CAN'T get past the idea that that the failure mode is TOTAL loss of braking, not just loss of ABS protection. The GM ignition switch failure caused only APPARENT loss of braking and steering (both functions could be manually overridden) yet millions of switches are being replaced and millions of dollars are being paid out for law suits. Harley made a big mistake in this design and if it won't revise it perhaps the DOT should exert some pressure. I just can't understand anyone defending an ABS brake system that can cause total brake failure.
The brake system on all vehicles is full of single-point failure mechanisms. So in addition to the ABS Module you are now condemning, here's a few more to think about:
- A rapid failure (burst) of a brake line?
- A rapid failure of any seal in the system, i.e., master cyl or caliper.
- Even a mechanical failure to parts such as pads, rotors, pistons, levers, pedals.
There's probably more potential failure mechanisms than I have listed but I think you should get my point. Any of these failures could result in a loss of brake function and none of them have a fail-safe mechanism built into them.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,459
Likes: 2,896
From: Oklahoma
2Black1s, you are quite correct. Brake improvements have been made with redundancy in mind. There are really 2 master cylinders and failure of one hose, master cylinder seal, caliper or wheel cylinder seal won't fail the entire system. Perhaps because the front and rear Harley systems are separate the same thought can be used there. At least to this point no improvement/addition to the braking system has added a possibility for total failure. I still maintain the only possible failure mode for ABS should be a failure of the ABS function, not an added brake failure mode as we seem to have here. No one has talked about this ABS malfunction with linked brakes. I have no theories on that.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,846
Likes: 173
From: Simi Valley, CA
2Black1s, you are quite correct. Brake improvements have been made with redundancy in mind. There are really 2 master cylinders and failure of one hose, master cylinder seal, caliper or wheel cylinder seal won't fail the entire system. Perhaps because the front and rear Harley systems are separate the same thought can be used there. At least to this point no improvement/addition to the braking system has added a possibility for total failure. I still maintain the only possible failure mode for ABS should be a failure of the ABS function, not an added brake failure mode as we seem to have here. No one has talked about this ABS malfunction with linked brakes. I have no theories on that.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,937
Likes: 254
From: US
If it were designed to go into non ABS mode when failed, how long would most be riding and not know there is a brake system failure? Am I understanding this condition correctly that even though there is a failure, that it does not effect both wheels, leaving you with at least 1 wheel for braking?
Road Master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,178
Likes: 5
From: Central Calif
actually the problem he describes could be related to a couple of different things -- which could be remedied by cracking the connection into the ABS.
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,846
Likes: 173
From: Simi Valley, CA
If it were designed to go into non ABS mode when failed, how long would most be riding and not know there is a brake system failure? Am I understanding this condition correctly that even though there is a failure, that it does not effect both wheels, leaving you with at least 1 wheel for braking?
As for losing both front and rear brakes at the same time, I don't know of any single failure that could cause that. You have two essentially separate systems, one front, one rear, although I'm not sure that's the case with the newer linked systems.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,459
Likes: 2,896
From: Oklahoma
Re-read the OP one more time. Cracking the connection allowed the lever to move (eliminating the master cylinder as the problem) BUT that still did not allow pressure to the calipers, hence still NO BRAKES. Again, I have never heard of this happening with a car so their ABS units must be engineered so the hydraulic lock can't happen.