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NO front brakes!

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Old Nov 15, 2015 | 11:14 AM
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Default NO front brakes!

My front lever locked up like a rock, no front brakes. Bike is in my garage as I type. Absolutely no movement at all when applying front brake, with or without bike started. I removed caliper; pushed the 4 pistons in, (none were seized) and without replacing the caliper back on the disc I squeezed the front brake. Still like a rock, no piston movement at all, and that is off the rotor. That's when I started Googling everything I could find out about my problem. Next I loosened the MF, master front, brake line going into the ABS Modulator on right side of bike, under right cover, and squeezed the front hand brake with slight pressure and fluid came out while hand lever started moving. While slightly squeezing I tightened the MF bolt and the hand lever stopped moving at the same time. So far that told me the brake lines between the master cylinder and the ABS control valve/modulator are not closed off and brake fluid flows freely to the ABS control valve/modulator. I squeezed the leaver twice and the leaver firmed up again. Next I did the same procedure to the F, front, on the ABS control valve/ modulator. This time when I loosened the bolt I only had some seepage of brake fluid as I backed the bolt off, but the brake lever didn't budge at all, still hard as a rock. I squeezed quit hard and the nut was very loose, and nothing, no fluid and the lever didn't move at all. So, I have fluid going in and no fluid coming out. I'd say that's a defective ABS valve/module that should be recalled. The way I understand it, the ABS valve/module is supposed to go into a manual mode and I would still have at least some front brakes. I had zip, nada, none. I had no warning lights come on and ABS light operated normally.
Bike: 2008 FLHTCU Ultra Glide Classic. I will be writing to notify the NHTSB and Harley Davidson. If there are others out there that this has happened to; SPEAK UP!
 
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Old Nov 15, 2015 | 11:36 AM
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Nice write-up, and looks like you did good troubleshooting
 
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Old Nov 15, 2015 | 11:39 AM
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Yeah , there are other instances. Usually when they post about their problem the masses of abs lovers call them liars or idiots.
 
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Old Nov 15, 2015 | 12:05 PM
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I am wondering if you will take it to a Dealer for their diagnoses and estimate of repair.Your self diagnoses won't hold much to the people your going to write to.
 
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Old Nov 15, 2015 | 12:09 PM
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Please let us know what you find out next week
 
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Old Nov 15, 2015 | 04:13 PM
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You need to replace the ABS pump.I have replaced a few of them because of the exact symptoms you have described. have you ever had your brake system flushed?It is in the maintenance schedule every 2 years.
 
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Old Nov 16, 2015 | 05:28 AM
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Have you added fluid to the system prior to the problem? The reason I ask is if the wrong type of fluid is used it can turn the fluid to a jell.
 
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Old Nov 17, 2015 | 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by josame
Have you added fluid to the system prior to the problem? The reason I ask is if the wrong type of fluid is used it can turn the fluid to a jell.
In my personal experience, on a sample of only one bike, that can take several years, not a short time. It is a risk however.
 
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Old Nov 18, 2015 | 06:07 AM
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I have added some fluid, DOT4.
I have not flushed the old DOT 4 fluid.
I did buy bike used, have had the bike less than two years.
The brake fluid that did come out, didn't look all that bad.


Yesterday I went to Harley, the ABS module that used to be sold only as a duel electronic and hydraulic assembly is now being sold as individual components. The part I need is the hydraulic, the service guy said he replaces about 1 (one) a month with the exact same problems that I described. He told me to replace the module and bleed the brakes. Chances are that I'll get all the air out same as they do in the shop, occasionally they have to hook up to the computer and remove a bubble. If I get a stuck bubble I can't get out, bring it in and he'll charge me $48.50 to hook up his machine to my computer and get that remaining bubble out. No appointment necessary, just drive up, only takes 10 or 15 minutes.


I talked to a buddy, told him what I just told you guys and he said, try taking the bike for a ride then bleed the system again before spending the $48.50. The lodged bubble usually bounces free internally permitting the bubble to be bled out.


The service guy also said to change fluid every 2 (two) years, after the fluid has been in a bike for more than 3 (three) years that's when the modules he has had to change needed changing. He said the fluid builds up a growth inside the solenoids and locks them up. It's just a valve, nothing special or out of the ordinary.


So, my plan is to open up the ABS valve see if I can clean the gunk out of it and make her work again. If I still have problems with it, I'll probably buy a new valve, haven't completely made up my mind. Maybe turn to EBay for a used one, not sure. All the road bikes 08-13 take the same hydraulic portion of the module assembly, not the Dyna's or the softail's. I found one 2013 Hydraulic module that the fluid isn't 3 years old yet that cosmetically look good in photo on EBay. Turns out he's a local guy, and a trip to look at it is buzzing in my head.
 
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Old Nov 18, 2015 | 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by SSteve
I have added some fluid, DOT4.


I talked to a buddy, told him what I just told you guys and he said, try taking the bike for a ride then bleed the system again before spending the $48.50. The lodged bubble usually bounces free internally permitting the bubble to be bled out.


The service guy also said to change fluid every 2 (two) years, after the fluid has been in a bike for more than 3 (three) years that's when the modules he has had to change needed changing. He said the fluid builds up a growth inside the solenoids and locks them up. It's just a valve, nothing special or out of the ordinary.


I found one 2013 Hydraulic module that the fluid isn't 3 years old yet that cosmetically look good in photo on EBay. Turns out he's a local guy, and a trip to look at it is buzzing in my head.
Never add Brake or clutch fluid unless you have a leak. The systems have enough in them and the level will go down a little as things wear. When you put new Brake pads on the level will return to normal.

Trying to bleed the brakes won't hurt.

Never heard of a growth in the fluid. I believe the reason to change every 2 years was to prevent corrosion if the fluid picks up a little water from the air. Evidently the system isn't sealed perfectly.

Check Boardtracker HD to see how much the part is. http://www.boardtrackerharleyonline.com/ Why does someone have a 2013 ABS part for sale, wreck? I think for the ABS System I'd stick with new parts.
Good luck
 
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