Mondulating headlight
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8,251
Likes: 3,989
From: Windwardside, Saba N.A.
Gonna get runthefukover when the flashing headlight induces an epileptic seizure in an oncoming motorist.
ETA: Could be an effective diagnostic tool for the driver after they scrape your bloody remains out from the underside of the car.
ETA: Could be an effective diagnostic tool for the driver after they scrape your bloody remains out from the underside of the car.
Last edited by Sierra977; Oct 9, 2017 at 10:58 AM.
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 379
Likes: 102
From: Illinois
Before I begin, I acknowledge that all posts here are personal opinions and in most cases can't be swayed for whatever reason, and that is OK....but many of the posts are heavily based on conjecture that aren't very useful to the OPs original post.
To the comments that properly aimed lights should be enough, the key word there is "should". How many times do we hear that a perfect bike with no imperfections was hit by someone because they did not see them? Were the properly aimed lights enough in that situation? Sad to think about but it does make you think.
To the comment that they are so honda and meant for metric bikes, I certainly don't understand those comments. Do you have such rider ego that anything other than a HD is not a motorcycle?
Post #20 is just all hopped up on conjecture that I just shake my head. I would like to comment on each point but we'd be here forever....and never has my motorcycle, both honda and HD, ever been thought of as a bicycle. Also modulators are Illegal to run at night, hence the requirement of the sensor to gauge ambient light.
The notion that other drivers would retaliate against a motorcycle for a modulating headlight is misguided and may speak more about the poster's behavioral tendencies than truth. Beyond the legal ramifications of following through with "getting runthefukover", becoming a target, or have a better idea of where to aim, I would hope that people don't go out and say you know what, the first flashing headlight not on an emergency vehicle is such a nuisance that I need to cause physical harm to that rider. The world is not all sunshine and rainbows but has anybody heard of road rage happening because of a headlight modulator?
Now to respond to post #20's request for a brilliant retort, I did some research and here is what I found regarding modulators. To note, there is not much out there on modulators specifically so it's limited. Most studies I found that mention headlight modulators say there wasn't enough data to make a definitive response on their effectiveness.
Studies started back in the 70's. The beginning studies were whether Daytime Running lights were aided motorcycle visibility. No shock here the use of a DRL resulted in a motorcycle being seen more than a motorcycle without a headlight on. These studies were done during day light hours. Additional studies were done on headlight configuration, single light, tr-light, the use of yellow lights, horizontal for vertical light layout etc. Each found out what did and didn't work based on that testing hypothesis. Not many talked about modulators
After searching, I found a study that specifically tested for headlight modulator effectiveness. Web address below provides access to full text. Based on this study, completed in 2015: Motorcycles with modulating headlights were detected nearly 1.5 times farther away than those with DRL and 1.25 times farther than high beam headlights. (lines 42-43).
The study also talks about gender, age, clothing colors choices and their influences as well. I encourage anyone to read it, it's only 10 pages. Again it is only one study so take that as you will.
At the end of the day, it is a rider's preference to use one as it is with anything in life. I hope this post and article can be useful to the HD forum community.
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...hcoming_in_TRR
To the comments that properly aimed lights should be enough, the key word there is "should". How many times do we hear that a perfect bike with no imperfections was hit by someone because they did not see them? Were the properly aimed lights enough in that situation? Sad to think about but it does make you think.
To the comment that they are so honda and meant for metric bikes, I certainly don't understand those comments. Do you have such rider ego that anything other than a HD is not a motorcycle?
Post #20 is just all hopped up on conjecture that I just shake my head. I would like to comment on each point but we'd be here forever....and never has my motorcycle, both honda and HD, ever been thought of as a bicycle. Also modulators are Illegal to run at night, hence the requirement of the sensor to gauge ambient light.
The notion that other drivers would retaliate against a motorcycle for a modulating headlight is misguided and may speak more about the poster's behavioral tendencies than truth. Beyond the legal ramifications of following through with "getting runthefukover", becoming a target, or have a better idea of where to aim, I would hope that people don't go out and say you know what, the first flashing headlight not on an emergency vehicle is such a nuisance that I need to cause physical harm to that rider. The world is not all sunshine and rainbows but has anybody heard of road rage happening because of a headlight modulator?
Now to respond to post #20's request for a brilliant retort, I did some research and here is what I found regarding modulators. To note, there is not much out there on modulators specifically so it's limited. Most studies I found that mention headlight modulators say there wasn't enough data to make a definitive response on their effectiveness.
Studies started back in the 70's. The beginning studies were whether Daytime Running lights were aided motorcycle visibility. No shock here the use of a DRL resulted in a motorcycle being seen more than a motorcycle without a headlight on. These studies were done during day light hours. Additional studies were done on headlight configuration, single light, tr-light, the use of yellow lights, horizontal for vertical light layout etc. Each found out what did and didn't work based on that testing hypothesis. Not many talked about modulators
After searching, I found a study that specifically tested for headlight modulator effectiveness. Web address below provides access to full text. Based on this study, completed in 2015: Motorcycles with modulating headlights were detected nearly 1.5 times farther away than those with DRL and 1.25 times farther than high beam headlights. (lines 42-43).
The study also talks about gender, age, clothing colors choices and their influences as well. I encourage anyone to read it, it's only 10 pages. Again it is only one study so take that as you will.
At the end of the day, it is a rider's preference to use one as it is with anything in life. I hope this post and article can be useful to the HD forum community.
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...hcoming_in_TRR
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,619
Likes: 9,083
From: Snow Hill, NC
No matter what. They are annoying as hell, yes we can see you come but I can see another bike come towards me as well, if the headlights are adjusted properly....doesn’t change the fact that they are just plain annoying. If you headlight is not adjusted properly and you have a modulation device I still won’t see it properly...
Thread Starter
|
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 83
Likes: 5
From: fort lauderdale
I’m surprised at the responses. I suggest you guys review the upcoming publications (google it) on increasing motorcycle visibility. Modulating headlights work and that’s the science of it. I’ve seen the same Neanderthal responses when discussing helmets and other safety gear. I want to thank you all for responding though. I especially appreciated the more articulate and thought out comments. Here is my bottom line. Every person makes their own decisions on how and what they ride with. Hey. If you want to put a traffic cone on your head that’s your business. A modulator on a headlight just works better than bright clothes or bright helmets or even reflecting gear improving visibility. That’s what the RECENT studies show. I’m getting one and installing it. If you want to flip me a finger because you don’t think it’s cool or whatever, lol. You’ll just get one back at ya.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,619
Likes: 9,083
From: Snow Hill, NC
I will say Helmets and safety gear don't annoy oncoming traffic... I wear a helmet all the time, I've never had anybody say it was distracting or annoying them...I've had dumba$$es pull out in front of me while driving my big a$$ SUV down the road... Stupid distracted drivers that are gonna pull out in front of you will pull out in front of you, they weren't paying attention to you anyway...
Last edited by Notgrownup; Oct 10, 2017 at 02:01 PM. Reason: Added to my add on...LOL
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,264
Likes: 3,359
From: Idaho Panhandle
Probably one of the best discussions. A link https://www.totalmotorcycle.com/BBS/...ic.php?t=31170
From Total Motorcycling Forums
Headlight modulators don't improve your safety
by Skier » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:35 pm
This is a copy/paste from my blag. I hope you guys get some use out of this.
At face value, modulating headlights on motorcycles is a great thing. A light that appears to be flashing is a great safety blanket against drivers who violate right of way of motorcyclists and claim they never saw the rider.
That conception is wrong.
To kick things off, modulators are annoying as all get-out. A light modulating at three to four Hertz, which all bike modulators do, appears flashing. This rapid cycling between low power and high power is especially annoying to folks driving small or low cars. Even huge SUVs aren’t immune to modulators paired with poorly aimed headlights. But we all adjust our headlight for extra load in the back such as a passenger, right?
ADVRider.com has a big thread discussing just this - the annoyance of modulators.
What strikes me is the downright rudeness of some riders. Knowing your modulator is causing motorists discomfort but seeing this as acceptable because the rider believes they will be seen better with it is silly. This is the same incorrect line of thinking of “loud pipes save lives.” The image of motorcycling is tarnished, ostensibly for safety.
There is a dearth of studies about the subject. Right away something doesn’t pass the sniff test - the manufacturers of these devices would be shouting from the rooftops if there was a shred of evidence supporting their purported safety benefits. Even in today’s lawsuit-filled world, some careful wording could let the marketing department drive up sales like nobody’s business.
I did find some studies done a few decades ago. To start, there is a study that was done in the United Kingdom in 1985. This is available as SAE paper 856129.
The paper used three testing methods. The first was lab based with static photos, so we’ll not concern ourselves with it - modulating headlamps don’t translate to still photos.
The second test was a field trial involving interviewing pedestrians about motorcycle conspicuity. Once again we’ll pass over this since the mindset of a pedestrian is different than a driver. Also, pedestrians also rarely violate a rider’s right of way and cause harm.
The third testing method involved drivers as subjects. This is the most applicable test for our purposes and the results for the two “flashing” lights trials were: no benefit at any site and benefit only at one site for the other. Not a glowing endorsement.
SAE paper 900749, published in 1990, uses the previous paper as one of its sources. One of the points in this paper is: a single light provides poor location and speed cues. Modulators do not overcome this limitation!
The paper’s conclusion was a large dipped headlight, a pair of daytime running lamps or a fluorescent jacket all significantly helped daylight conspicuity.
The third and final paper is one that points to headlight modulators improving motorcycle conspicuity. This is the Olson report, published in 1979 for the NHTSA. Yes, the only paper supporting modulator use is also the oldest.
The Olson paper used one of the better testing methods. Using real traffic, the gap-acceptance rate was used. Basically, the rate at which motorists will violate the motorcycle’s right of way. Think the usual left-turners crossing your path or pulling out in front of you from the right.
Their results for daytime conspicuity, from gap-acceptance, was the following three items improve motorcycle visibility: a headlight modulating at 3 Hertz, any headlight being powered and wearing a high-visibility garment (fluorescent). Yes, they put running any headlamp at all on par with a modulating headlight.
The study goes in depth into peripheal versus foveal (central one to two degrees) vision. A postulation was made that the results of peripheral processing will selectively determine where the foveal attention will be directed. In other words, the brain of a motorist will determine what to look at.
Later, the paper says that no claim is being made that fixation of a target is also a sufficient condition for efficient identification. This means while drivers may look at a rider because of the modulating headlamp, they may still fail to see the rider. Every rider who has made eye contact with a driver and had the car violate their right of way anyways know exactly what this means.
Before we get into the fact drivers looking at riders does not necessarily mean anything, let us not forget the study states “the advantage of flashing light is absent in the presence of other flashing light.” More riders using modulators means a lower chance it will have an effect on motorists.
Another item in the study is the fact that for less than three second gaps, a motorcycle with a dimmed headlight and the automobile control are not statistically different. So if the gap in front of a rider is less than three seconds, the rider’s right of way is just as likely to be violated as a full sized car. To be more specific, a 1969 Plymouth station wagon, the control car. Motorcycle visibility is already on par with huge cars in this situation!
A page later, an important few sentences appear:
We have two out of three papers showing very little to no improvement in conspicuity with a headlamp modulator. The third paper shows occasional improvement with caveats of the novelty effect and the fact their advantage disappears when more than one flashing light is present.
This is not a great vote of confidence.
A plea to riders contemplating a modulator for their motorcycle: please don’t. The little gain of which there is a small chance of receiving isn’t worth angering motorists. Be a polite road user: use non-annoying methods of improving your safety.
Added: I could not find a link to his blog. Also, this does not address the question that the modulating technology was developed around incandescent headlights and has never been tested with LEDs whose ability to blind other drivers or riders is akin to an LED strobe light. It is an old technology and is not being allowed to die or to be used on bicycles, where due to the speed they may have some use.
From Total Motorcycling Forums
Headlight modulators don't improve your safety
by Skier » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:35 pm
This is a copy/paste from my blag. I hope you guys get some use out of this.
At face value, modulating headlights on motorcycles is a great thing. A light that appears to be flashing is a great safety blanket against drivers who violate right of way of motorcyclists and claim they never saw the rider.
That conception is wrong.
To kick things off, modulators are annoying as all get-out. A light modulating at three to four Hertz, which all bike modulators do, appears flashing. This rapid cycling between low power and high power is especially annoying to folks driving small or low cars. Even huge SUVs aren’t immune to modulators paired with poorly aimed headlights. But we all adjust our headlight for extra load in the back such as a passenger, right?
ADVRider.com has a big thread discussing just this - the annoyance of modulators.
What strikes me is the downright rudeness of some riders. Knowing your modulator is causing motorists discomfort but seeing this as acceptable because the rider believes they will be seen better with it is silly. This is the same incorrect line of thinking of “loud pipes save lives.” The image of motorcycling is tarnished, ostensibly for safety.
There is a dearth of studies about the subject. Right away something doesn’t pass the sniff test - the manufacturers of these devices would be shouting from the rooftops if there was a shred of evidence supporting their purported safety benefits. Even in today’s lawsuit-filled world, some careful wording could let the marketing department drive up sales like nobody’s business.
I did find some studies done a few decades ago. To start, there is a study that was done in the United Kingdom in 1985. This is available as SAE paper 856129.
The paper used three testing methods. The first was lab based with static photos, so we’ll not concern ourselves with it - modulating headlamps don’t translate to still photos.
The second test was a field trial involving interviewing pedestrians about motorcycle conspicuity. Once again we’ll pass over this since the mindset of a pedestrian is different than a driver. Also, pedestrians also rarely violate a rider’s right of way and cause harm.
The third testing method involved drivers as subjects. This is the most applicable test for our purposes and the results for the two “flashing” lights trials were: no benefit at any site and benefit only at one site for the other. Not a glowing endorsement.
SAE paper 900749, published in 1990, uses the previous paper as one of its sources. One of the points in this paper is: a single light provides poor location and speed cues. Modulators do not overcome this limitation!
The paper’s conclusion was a large dipped headlight, a pair of daytime running lamps or a fluorescent jacket all significantly helped daylight conspicuity.
The third and final paper is one that points to headlight modulators improving motorcycle conspicuity. This is the Olson report, published in 1979 for the NHTSA. Yes, the only paper supporting modulator use is also the oldest.
The Olson paper used one of the better testing methods. Using real traffic, the gap-acceptance rate was used. Basically, the rate at which motorists will violate the motorcycle’s right of way. Think the usual left-turners crossing your path or pulling out in front of you from the right.
Their results for daytime conspicuity, from gap-acceptance, was the following three items improve motorcycle visibility: a headlight modulating at 3 Hertz, any headlight being powered and wearing a high-visibility garment (fluorescent). Yes, they put running any headlamp at all on par with a modulating headlight.
The study goes in depth into peripheal versus foveal (central one to two degrees) vision. A postulation was made that the results of peripheral processing will selectively determine where the foveal attention will be directed. In other words, the brain of a motorist will determine what to look at.
Later, the paper says that no claim is being made that fixation of a target is also a sufficient condition for efficient identification. This means while drivers may look at a rider because of the modulating headlamp, they may still fail to see the rider. Every rider who has made eye contact with a driver and had the car violate their right of way anyways know exactly what this means.
Before we get into the fact drivers looking at riders does not necessarily mean anything, let us not forget the study states “the advantage of flashing light is absent in the presence of other flashing light.” More riders using modulators means a lower chance it will have an effect on motorists.
Another item in the study is the fact that for less than three second gaps, a motorcycle with a dimmed headlight and the automobile control are not statistically different. So if the gap in front of a rider is less than three seconds, the rider’s right of way is just as likely to be violated as a full sized car. To be more specific, a 1969 Plymouth station wagon, the control car. Motorcycle visibility is already on par with huge cars in this situation!
A page later, an important few sentences appear:
[The modulating headlamp] may represent a novelty effect. If so, it would be expected to diminish were the treatment commonly employed.
If we motorcyclists started slapping modulating equipment on all our bikes, we could be back to square one but with lighter wallets. Drivers will update their peripheral filters to ignore the flashing light.We have two out of three papers showing very little to no improvement in conspicuity with a headlamp modulator. The third paper shows occasional improvement with caveats of the novelty effect and the fact their advantage disappears when more than one flashing light is present.
This is not a great vote of confidence.
A plea to riders contemplating a modulator for their motorcycle: please don’t. The little gain of which there is a small chance of receiving isn’t worth angering motorists. Be a polite road user: use non-annoying methods of improving your safety.
Added: I could not find a link to his blog. Also, this does not address the question that the modulating technology was developed around incandescent headlights and has never been tested with LEDs whose ability to blind other drivers or riders is akin to an LED strobe light. It is an old technology and is not being allowed to die or to be used on bicycles, where due to the speed they may have some use.
Club Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 917
Likes: 95
From: Nashville, TN
Exactly the reason why most folks around here won’t use them. The local cop bikes headlight modulates when code 2-3, along with blue lights. Can cause a bad situation quickly when someone decides to slam on their brakes thinking they are getting pulled over.