Vance & Hines FP3
Tourer
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 275
Likes: 47
From: Southern California
I had a FP3 on my '15 slim an it did the job but the tuners near me aren't too keen on them. if you're happy with canned maps an auto tunes it's a good tuner that's easy to use an I really liked the phone interface so I didn't have to plug the power vision in. I went with a power vision for my street glide since that's what the tuners around me like an it came with the updates an a map already installed from fuel moto. Fuel moto sent me a tune when I added the cycle rama cams an it runs really well on it. eventually I'll get a dyno tune but it runs like a beast imo right now.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,681
Likes: 851
From: Puyallup, wa
They don't like it because of the format. they have come out with a pro version that is more tuner friendly. No flash device will have your bike running as good as a good dyno tune.
Road Master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 953
Likes: 954
From: Daytona Beach
I'm using the FP3 on my 09' Fatboy.
I called V&H as to which map to use since my Rineharts were not listed in the pipe list. They directed me to the closest match and the bike ran awesome. I was able to dial out the decel pop also. Ran on that for a month then decided to try the Autotune. Felt no difference. Went back to the previous map and all is good.
Bike runs cooler, good gas mileage and no decel pop. Sounds better too. And its super easy to install and try different things.
I called V&H as to which map to use since my Rineharts were not listed in the pipe list. They directed me to the closest match and the bike ran awesome. I was able to dial out the decel pop also. Ran on that for a month then decided to try the Autotune. Felt no difference. Went back to the previous map and all is good.
Bike runs cooler, good gas mileage and no decel pop. Sounds better too. And its super easy to install and try different things.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,830
Likes: 302
From: Lorain Ohio
My understanding was the FP3 only managed fuel trims and didn't make adjustments to timing so you couldn't get the max out of your bike. My bike runs well off the flash tune but every motor is different to some degree, there are variations engine to engine an I imagine from exhaust to exhaust...does every pipe or muffler flow exactly the same as one made 500 pipes ago? So a a pro tuner will make a tune for that exact motor. Also not all tuners are created equal, some are better than others an some are outright hacks.
another good thing about the FP3 is they are constantly updating the app/device. the timing thing might be bad info or obsolete info. When I had just a stage one on my slim I was very happy with the FP3, after adding the tw-555 cams not so much. I didn't think I got that big a kick from the cams, they might have been a bad match for a stock compression bike but after putting the CR cams in my street glide with the .030 head gaskets an the PV tune it was night an day better.
another good thing about the FP3 is they are constantly updating the app/device. the timing thing might be bad info or obsolete info. When I had just a stage one on my slim I was very happy with the FP3, after adding the tw-555 cams not so much. I didn't think I got that big a kick from the cams, they might have been a bad match for a stock compression bike but after putting the CR cams in my street glide with the .030 head gaskets an the PV tune it was night an day better.
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 72
Likes: 22
From: Ct
I have an FP3 on my 2016 Road Glide Ultra. The first thing I did was download a canned map and dump the factory map. I was told by VH tech that you shouldnt autotune unless absolutely necessary. I sent them my map after a few weeks of riding and they acknowledge everything was good to go. Although, one of these days I do need to dyno it and see......
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 223
Likes: 48
From: Ohio
I'm using the FP3 on my 09' Fatboy.
I called V&H as to which map to use since my Rineharts were not listed in the pipe list. They directed me to the closest match and the bike ran awesome. I was able to dial out the decel pop also. Ran on that for a month then decided to try the Autotune. Felt no difference. Went back to the previous map and all is good.
Bike runs cooler, good gas mileage and no decel pop. Sounds better too. And its super easy to install and try different things.
I called V&H as to which map to use since my Rineharts were not listed in the pipe list. They directed me to the closest match and the bike ran awesome. I was able to dial out the decel pop also. Ran on that for a month then decided to try the Autotune. Felt no difference. Went back to the previous map and all is good.
Bike runs cooler, good gas mileage and no decel pop. Sounds better too. And its super easy to install and try different things.
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 72
Likes: 22
From: Ct
My understanding was the FP3 only managed fuel trims and didn't make adjustments to timing so you couldn't get the max out of your bike. My bike runs well off the flash tune but every motor is different to some degree, there are variations engine to engine an I imagine from exhaust to exhaust...does every pipe or muffler flow exactly the same as one made 500 pipes ago? So a a pro tuner will make a tune for that exact motor. Also not all tuners are created equal, some are better than others an some are outright hacks.
another good thing about the FP3 is they are constantly updating the app/device. the timing thing might be bad info or obsolete info. When I had just a stage one on my slim I was very happy with the FP3, after adding the tw-555 cams not so much. I didn't think I got that big a kick from the cams, they might have been a bad match for a stock compression bike but after putting the CR cams in my street glide with the .030 head gaskets an the PV tune it was night an day better.
another good thing about the FP3 is they are constantly updating the app/device. the timing thing might be bad info or obsolete info. When I had just a stage one on my slim I was very happy with the FP3, after adding the tw-555 cams not so much. I didn't think I got that big a kick from the cams, they might have been a bad match for a stock compression bike but after putting the CR cams in my street glide with the .030 head gaskets an the PV tune it was night an day better.
It does adjust timing, as I understand.
This if from V&H themselves. It's quite a lot of info, but explains the fp3 in detail.
On the contrary. Below is the list of tables that the FP3 edits and flashes. There are a couple more depending on domestic/international calibration and model/year. But suffice to say, it does more than just fuel. Also, before the list is a forum statement I wrote awhile ago to help clear the air on questions like this.
I want to clarify something with all the read ers of this thread. The FP3, PV and SE all control the same core tables for tuning. Such as but not limited to, VE tables, AFR table, Spark tables, PE tables, rev limit, idle rpm and more. The tuner is the tool one uses dial in and "tune" the bike. It is a common misconception that one device performs better than the other, when in fact it is the one who is tuning it that makes the difference. Whether it be a dyno operator, tuning specialist or kid next door, the FP3 is as flexible and powerful as you want it to be or as simple. Most dyno operators favor the use of other brand's devices because they are accustomed to it's software and have tools that integrate with their dyno. However, not everyone wants to, or needs to, dyno there bike to accomplish tuning it to their liking. BTW, you can still dyno with a FP3, the tables are still in the same native tuning format.
The FP3 has a much simpler GUI that the majority of people can pick up, and tune their bike in without the use of any other equipment, (with the exception of a smartphone of course). We have a database of over 10,000 maps ranging from completely bone stock to intake, exhaust and more. We have 5 Eddy Currentdynos that we use to create maps for all the specific setups and calibrations. On top of the dyno testing, we also do a specific street test to ensure optimal ride-ability and economy. Suffice to say, that the FP3 is NOT a simple Stage 1 replacement device. But a device that can grow with your bike's build.
In the next update we will be offering a new feature for you to select your camshaftfrom a list of over 50+ aftermarket cams. This will make the adjustments for your map for IVO and IVC. Then run the AutoTune to smooth the rest of the map over. You can change displacement, injector flow rating and more for the more intense setups.
Another feature that is commonly overlooked, (and the OP has direct experience with as well) is our Customer Service area. We can make specific adjustments to your map and send it right back to your phone, all remotely. One such example is decel popping. Some setups have more than others and need an extra adjustment. All the user has to do is upload their map via the customer support tab, send us their VIN and we can make the adjustments if the user is not comfortable or does not know what to change. All the user will have to do is click "Download and Flash" and it will flash that map and its changes directly into the bike. So if there is something within question or needs adjustment, we can help you out, anywhere.
The FP3 is constantly evolving. There are even more features in the pipeline that further expand the FP3's tuning arsenal as well as satisfy user requests. All are free OTA (Over the Air) updates that automatically prompt you when you connect to your FP3.
Hope this helps any readers with any questions or doubts about the FP3. If anyone has any other questions, please feel free to send us an email through the application or customer service areas.
Air/Fuel:
front/rear VE, : a percentage indicating how completely the cylinder is filling with air.
AFR, : the desired or target air/fuel ratio. The ECU uses this number to calculate how much fuel to spray.
throttle progressivity (primary and secondary): Percentage indicating how far the throttle blade should open. Compares the amount the twist grip is
rotated and how fast the engine is running.
Throttle table switchover gear: Two tables are available so one can be more aggressive than the other. This value indicates when to switch from the
primary to the secondary table.
Acceleration, : amount of extra fuel to add when the engine is accelerating
Deceleration, : amount of fuel to remove when decelerating F/R charge dilution, : Amount of exhaust gases remaining in the cylinder after the exhaust valve is closed. The computer only uses this table when manifold pressure is less than 60 kPa.
Closed loop range, :within this range, the ECU will use O2 sensor feedback to adjust the fuel delivery
closed loop activation temp,: minimum temperature the engine must attain before the ECU goes into closed loop (in closed loop, the Oxygen sensor is
used to trim the amount of fuel sprayed into the engine).
closed loop deactivation temp,: If the engine temperature drops below this
temperature, the ECU will go from closed loop to open loop mode (in open loop, the ECU does not use the Oxygen sensor to trim fuel delivery)
Map load normalization,: table to compensate MAP readings for intake flow restrictions. You should not need to adjust this table.
intake valve opening/closing angles,: indicate to the ECU when to read the MAP sensor. This number is converted to a crankshaft sensor tooth position.
Adaptive control min temp: Minimum temperature where the ECU will start to save the O2 sensor trim values (learning)
Spark:
F/R spark,: Spark timing table. Degrees of spark advance based on engine load (MAP) and engine speed (RPM).
spark vs. engine temp,: Table to adjust the base spark timing for different engine temperatures.
spark vs. air temp, Table to adjust spark timing for air temperature. Gives you the ability to pull timing out at high load with high air temperature.
spark vs. head temp,: Table to adjust spark timing for head temperature. Gives you the ability to pull timing out at high load with high head temperatures.
adaptive knock retard, Maximum amount of knock retard which can be learned. Based on engine load and engine rpm.
max knock retard, Maximum amount of retard which can be applied.
knock control activation temp, Minimum temperature where knock control will start working.
knock control deactivation temp, If the engine temperature drops below this level, the ECU will turn off knock control.
idle spark gain, The ECU will adjust the spark timing when the engine is idling to help control the idle speed. This number affects how aggressive the
function is. You probably dont need to adjust this.
idle spark max, Maximum amount the spark timing will be adjusted to smooth idle rpm.
F/R closed throttle spark, Spark timing when the throttle is closed.
Closed throttle spark max tps. Maximum TPS setting where the Closed Throttle Spark table is used. Above this temperature, the normal spark
timing tables are used.
Performance mode:
PE afr,: Performance Enrichment mode is a special engine preservation mode designed to help keep the motor from being destroyed. After a period
of time at wide-open- throttle, the engine will start to add fuel and reduce spark timing. This table indicates the desired AFR vs time. The longer the
engine is in this mode, the AFR should slowly decrease.
PE spark, : Spark timing while in PE mode.
PE disable rpm, :Once the engine is operating in PE mode, the RPM must drop below this level before it reverts back to normal mode.
PE enable RPM,: Engine rpm must be above this level before entering PE mode.
PE disable TPS, Once the engine is operating in PE mode, the TPS must drop below this level before it reverts back to normal mode.
PE enable TPS, : The throttle position must be above this level to enter PE mode.
Startup/Idle:
cranking fuel, Amount of fuel sprayed into the engine when the cranking.
Expressed as milliseconds. Engine displacement changes may require changes to this table.
warmup enrichment, When the engine is warming up, it requires more fuel than when it is fully warm. This table specifies the amount of enrichment.
iac crank steps vs. temp, When cranking, there is a minimum amount of air required to get the engine to start. This air is controlled by the IAC motor
position. When the engine is cold, more air is required. This table allows you to adjust this relationship.
iac crank to run,
iac warmup, Table indicating the initial IAC position vs. engine temperature.
The closer these numbers are to the actual IAC position, the smoother the initial idle will be. Displacement changes may require adjustments to this table.
idle rpm. Desired idle speed at various engine temperatures. Warning: oil pressure drops with engine rpm and HD warns that 900 rpm is the minimum speed to have adequate oil pressure.
Active exhaust
First gear: The HD exhaust system includes a restriction valve on international bikes. This valve can open and close to help meet local noise
regulations. One table per gear. The bike must be moving for the ECU to know which gear it is in; results with the bike stopped can vary. 100 is full
open, 0 is full closed.
Second gear: table for second gear. 100 is full open, 0 is full closed.
Third gear: table for third gear. 100 is full open, 0 is full closed.
Fourth gear: table for fourth and fifth gear. 100 is full open, 0 is full closed.
General:
Rev limit, maximum engine speed allowed.
injector size, Rated size of the fuel injector.
MPG adjustment, Adjusts the MPG reading on the bike. Larger numbers show higher MPG.
engine displacement, Engine size.
Gear ratios (first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth): Gear ratio for each gear.
The ECU uses this info to know which gear it is in.
Last edited by Schulzy; Jun 29, 2019 at 06:19 PM.
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Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 155
Likes: 11
From: Newark DE
This, I don't understand.... if you don't need a canned map, why even install one? Am I missing something? Are you going to autotune the factory map? Seems useless to me.
I have an FP3 on my 2016 Road Glide Ultra. The first thing I did was download a canned map and dump the factory map. I was told by VH tech that you shouldnt autotune unless absolutely necessary. I sent them my map after a few weeks of riding and they acknowledge everything was good to go. Although, one of these days I do need to dyno it and see......
I have an FP3 on my 2016 Road Glide Ultra. The first thing I did was download a canned map and dump the factory map. I was told by VH tech that you shouldnt autotune unless absolutely necessary. I sent them my map after a few weeks of riding and they acknowledge everything was good to go. Although, one of these days I do need to dyno it and see......
Now my bike only has V & H Monster Squared mufflers and a Fuel Moto pipe. with an SE air cleaner so maybe its close enough to stock to not need a canned map first.
Last edited by e.nigma; Jun 30, 2019 at 04:05 AM.
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 72
Likes: 22
From: Ct
It does what you said. But the first thing you do is download a canned map as close to your setup as possible. Run that canned map for a tank or two. Then run your auto tune. You want to dump the factory map as it is too lean to meet EPA requirements.
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