me to.....my question was...is there a way to do the same thing...while keeping the look more to the norm.....it aint about ego.....it's about what looks appealing to the majority of the people.......Howard....I am trying to get along here......hint

 

Oh good, you crossed over from technical matter which is not in my realm to psychology and mental health which is in my realm. First off, youo are about ego, which is in Latin "I myself" You have highjacked an unrellated thread about a product and its use by injecting that you had a superior product to sell and only you could produce such an item. Then you go on to say how you could never understand 'us' and to 'preach' would be like selling ice to Eskimos? If you have a new idea to pose, a product to sell or a concept to spring on the world, why not go to an appropriate thread and hawk it? If, on the other hand, there was something that was appealing, attractive AND functional, I bet everyone would flock to it. Bart is correct that form and function are together. There is no ego invloved there, just sound business practice. As a matter of pure diction, the proper phrase wound be "defensive" not offensive. I am going to go out and enjoy my mechanically inferior, superior looking ride today!

Enjoy.

 

21x18 FOR LIFE

 

Ok....after a conference call this morning with half of 360 and Mike Phillips of Grandeur, and here is outcome of the meeting.

We are all confident that the pads failed due to heat, it is highly unlikely that it is anything else....this I agree with.....the cause of the heat is where the issuse is. When mounting the brake you have to use a spacer that is basically a crush spacer, many shops use sch 40 pipe for this purpose and in most applications it works fine, however if anything less than sch 80 pipe is used, the crush spacer begins to swedge ifyou will into the face of the bearing...(this is what caused Bryan TTM's brake to get super hot and fail). I am 80% convinced that either Fish's spacer was either to long or to thin but not to the degree that Bryan's was, but it still led to pad failure.

The hard part here is that even if you had five identical road kings with the same brand wheels because of the tolerances of the rotor hat on the brake, the tolerances of the wheel, and the tolerances of the front end, if they were all on the negative side, it would be very likely that if all the spacers were machined the same...one or two of the brakes would fail for the above issuses mentioned, so it would be all but impossible to supply a precut spacer.

Now the good news.....Fish, I need your address you got new parts coming......and I need your installer to call Mike Philllips at Grandeur Cycles soMike can in great detail explain to him how to properly install this spacer and that it needs to be machined...measured etc. I am confidant that will fix your issuse, if it doesnt my offer to take it back and get you a six piston caliper and rotor still stands.

Now how to prevent this from occuring in the future, and we are open to any other ideas, but here is what we came up with. 360 is going to produce a video that will be on their website, Grandeur's and mine, that will show in great detail, how to measure and install this brake, pictures will good, are not a substitute for a video with narriation that you can watch over and over til you get it. (Some guys like me, have to watch it more than once, lol) There will be a dialogue box where you will check to insure that you understand what you have seen, and if not, you will call us to get further instructions. Now before you get worried that if you check your box, and your brake fails, we wont stand behind it, etc. That is not the case, we simply want to know if the video is working, customers and shops are viewing it, and it's helping.

I feel much better after talking to Julian at 360 and Mike, and it seems like every failure or issuse we have had to date have been from heat, not brake heat, but bearing heat.

I feel pretty good that we have a handle on it, and 360 is responding well to help with any issuses. I hope this answers everyones questions, and if you have any more, just let me know.

Bart

 

Let me add one thing, this is not like cutting a normal wheel spacer......these need to be machined, the brake is a precise part, so access to a lathe is going to be important. But this is such a simple thing for a machine shop to make, like less than five minutes.

 

Once again I thank you for your committment to the community here at hdforums. Is this committment a strange entity? These days yes, but after knowing you, I'd say it is par for the course![sm=smiley20.gif]

 

Bart,
If it is bearing heat there are a couple things that can be done to confirm.
First, Bearings and heat do not mix... Everyones knows this! If those bearings have been heated of course they need to be replaced. If you want you can send me the bearings and I will analyze them for you. I can tell buy looking at them the wear path, loading,if there was contamination in the grease and or false brinelling.
Second option is you can send them back to the bearing supplier to get the same results. They should do it at no cost to you/manufacturer. Things they will need to know are installation direction, hours on them (not exact), rpm range(again not exact), the rpm can be calculated.

Anyway I can help let me know....

Im just glad nobody was hurt. Brakes are such a large liabilty. The last thing you want as a manufacture is to have a death caused from your product. My old company was going to design a braking system for a monorail system and final got smart andvended it out.

Fish, that is still a sweet looking ride.

John

 

Stupid questions: If the spacer material and size is so critical to having it work, why doesn't the vendor supply it with his product? Could a pre-made spacer and an assortment of shims be an alternative to locally cutting down a chunk ofschedule 80 pipe?

I'm an old pipefitter and hardly think of any schedule 80 pipe as being a basis for precision material, regardless of the metal.

shooter: Don't know when I'll be in the market for your products or services, but you'll be my first call - I like the way you do business.

 

Thanks Sol, and you are right about the pipe, but if it's machined then it's fine, we could offer a spacer longer and let the end user cut it, but it wouldnt matter how many disclaimers you put on it, I can't imagine any insurance company letting 360 do it. I might be wrong about that, but we did discuss it at length(pardon the pun) this morning, and decided that it was in the best interest for the end user to use what they had on hand, but I would say that now at least there will be some specs that it has to meet.

 

Bart,
I can say without any reservations that you will get more business from your stand up attitude than your prices, which are good too. Nice to see a guy really bend over backwards to satisfy the customers!