Brake Fluid question
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,473
Likes: 6,344
From: pacific northwest
Yeah I change the fluid on everything every two years, it's just a question of whether I have been doing a complete job because I have never cycled the abs valves. I only bought a scan tool with that capability recently to handle electronic parking brakes when I change rear pads, so I guess that will be getting more use now.
What is troubling is the fact that the moco specs this in the FSM, but provides no way for anyone to do this at home. All the aftermarket scan tool set ups recommended here stop for 2020+ bikes, and most aren't set up for the new windows os. I have found some options, but only on the likes of amazon. Messing with the canbus and ecu system, I would prefer to have a more reputable source. I am just surprised there aren't more options.
What is troubling is the fact that the moco specs this in the FSM, but provides no way for anyone to do this at home. All the aftermarket scan tool set ups recommended here stop for 2020+ bikes, and most aren't set up for the new windows os. I have found some options, but only on the likes of amazon. Messing with the canbus and ecu system, I would prefer to have a more reputable source. I am just surprised there aren't more options.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,328
Likes: 2,410
From: Jackson, OH
What I did:
Stopped at my H-D dealer and told them I wanted a price to flush out the old brake fluid and service the ABS module per my model's requirements. I would provide the brake fluid..."Just quote me the labor." They quoted me $100 which was fair. A couple weeks later they did the service and charged me $100. Bike was in and out under an hour.
Stopped at my H-D dealer and told them I wanted a price to flush out the old brake fluid and service the ABS module per my model's requirements. I would provide the brake fluid..."Just quote me the labor." They quoted me $100 which was fair. A couple weeks later they did the service and charged me $100. Bike was in and out under an hour.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,328
Likes: 2,410
From: Jackson, OH
further....
I stopped in at my dealership today and spoke with the owner. He actually works on bikes himself and supervises his techs. I specifically asked him to explain whether (or not) it was important or useful to cycle the ABS module via the H-D Digital Tech. He told me they always do this on ABS bikes when flushing the brake fluid. They do not charge extra for it, and it takes about 5 minutes to follow the procedure through. He explained that the ABS module DOES hold brake fluid internally and this fluid is not moved out with a 'normal' flush. Only by activating the ABS module with a digital tool can the trapped brake fluid be correctly flushed through the module's valves/pistons.
My next question was whether he considered it important to do the ABS cycling and flush every couple years. He told me he had no proof of it, and that many bikes never get it performed. On the other hand, he maintained that it only makes sense to do it if possible...and that ignoring it is like ignoring other service items. You may never have a problem ever. If you do, you'll wish you'd done the service. So take your chances or don't...it's entirely up to you.
I stopped in at my dealership today and spoke with the owner. He actually works on bikes himself and supervises his techs. I specifically asked him to explain whether (or not) it was important or useful to cycle the ABS module via the H-D Digital Tech. He told me they always do this on ABS bikes when flushing the brake fluid. They do not charge extra for it, and it takes about 5 minutes to follow the procedure through. He explained that the ABS module DOES hold brake fluid internally and this fluid is not moved out with a 'normal' flush. Only by activating the ABS module with a digital tool can the trapped brake fluid be correctly flushed through the module's valves/pistons.
My next question was whether he considered it important to do the ABS cycling and flush every couple years. He told me he had no proof of it, and that many bikes never get it performed. On the other hand, he maintained that it only makes sense to do it if possible...and that ignoring it is like ignoring other service items. You may never have a problem ever. If you do, you'll wish you'd done the service. So take your chances or don't...it's entirely up to you.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 131
Likes: 64
From: Cleveland
further....
My next question was whether he considered it important to do the ABS cycling and flush every couple years. He told me he had no proof of it, and that many bikes never get it performed. On the other hand, he maintained that it only makes sense to do it if possible...and that ignoring it is like ignoring other service items. You may never have a problem ever. If you do, you'll wish you'd done the service. So take your chances or don't...it's entirely up to you.
My next question was whether he considered it important to do the ABS cycling and flush every couple years. He told me he had no proof of it, and that many bikes never get it performed. On the other hand, he maintained that it only makes sense to do it if possible...and that ignoring it is like ignoring other service items. You may never have a problem ever. If you do, you'll wish you'd done the service. So take your chances or don't...it's entirely up to you.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 38,593
Likes: 6,435
From: Honah Lee
I was following another thread about renewing the brake fluid and the need to cycle the ABS pump to get all the fluid out, and that gave me a thought. No service manual I have read ever instructs to cycle the ABS during the brake bleeding process. I have FSMs for all my other vehicles except for my FLHT. None of the those ever mention the need to cycle the pump to flush and renew brake fluid. The books just walk you through the flushing procedure as everyone knows and is used to (with minor differences to account for brake boosters and such). The only time I ever was instructed by the FSM to cycle the ABS pump during the bleeding process was when I was installing the ABS pump after having it out of the bike for repair. Seems like the manufacturers aren't exactly telling their techs cycle the ABS during the two-year brake fluid renewal process so it's more of something that I only see online. Is this step even necessary or is it something along the lines of it can be done, so maybe it gets that extra 5 ounces out of the system (kind of like those that actually pump the new oil with the line disconnected to get all of the old oil out instead of just draining and refilling).
Does Harley's FSM include the step of cycling the ABS pump when flushing the brake fluid?
Does Harley's FSM include the step of cycling the ABS pump when flushing the brake fluid?
Long as it's in warranty, one ought to let a dealer do it since it's a big-ticket item. After that, use a vacuum pump at the caliper to draw the new fluid thru the system. Then make the ABS work on a dirt road. Carefully!!!!. If you wreck, you weren't being careful.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,328
Likes: 2,410
From: Jackson, OH
I personally don't see H-D having any responsibility to make the ABS system owner-serviceable. Lots of manufacturers have components or systems which need eventual maintenance but can (typically) only be serviced by a dealer or other qualified shop with necessary software. Anybody who is dead set on servicing their own ABS with a digital tech tool has options; albeit they might be very expensive. Software changes regularly. H-D charges a dealer ruthlessly to keep their software and computers up to date....I have been told that more than once by dealership owners and managers. You or I might buy a $500 tech device only to find it's obsolete on the next bike. Or maybe it only 'marries' to one bike unless you buy another license. We all know how it works, and almost nothing is free.
Personally if a dealer told me $200 I would still pay to have it done every 2 or 3 years. Alternately, I would look into a tech device and weigh that cost vs future savings. In my case I could see no logic in tying up $500 for a tool I'd use once and forget until 2 years later....and then again. Nope...not me. Some struggles are worth it, but with brake & ABS flush happening every couple (or more) years I'm happier to pay my dealer.
Personally if a dealer told me $200 I would still pay to have it done every 2 or 3 years. Alternately, I would look into a tech device and weigh that cost vs future savings. In my case I could see no logic in tying up $500 for a tool I'd use once and forget until 2 years later....and then again. Nope...not me. Some struggles are worth it, but with brake & ABS flush happening every couple (or more) years I'm happier to pay my dealer.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 4,798
Likes: 5,889
From: Knoxville
Groups
Anyone in a club or riding group? Maybe talk around and see how others feel, chip in for the tool, everyone gets access, everyone saves?
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 5,814
Likes: 7,147
From: Las Vegas
I'm having a hard time understanding the complaint that Harley makes it hard for an owner to cycle the ABS pump for a complete fluid flush. They don't, you just need the proper tools. They sell spark plugs too, but it's on the owner to provide the tools to change them, There are many special tools required to work on a Harley. I wanted to do the complete flush, so I bought the TechnoResearch tool. I've spent a lot on specialty tools for lots of vehicles, including Harleys. The beauty of it is that I know it's done right. No wondering. And I don't overcharge myself.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 131
Likes: 64
From: Cleveland
I'm having a hard time understanding the complaint that Harley makes it hard for an owner to cycle the ABS pump for a complete fluid flush. They don't, you just need the proper tools. They sell spark plugs too, but it's on the owner to provide the tools to change them, There are many special tools required to work on a Harley. I wanted to do the complete flush, so I bought the TechnoResearch tool. I've spent a lot on specialty tools for lots of vehicles, including Harleys. The beauty of it is that I know it's done right. No wondering. And I don't overcharge myself.