A
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,094
Likes: 5
From: SE Wisconsin
RE: Another Stealer Stoy
ORIGINAL: johnnyspeed
you will talk to ten people and get ten different answers,
the big decision will be wich one is correct??
you will talk to ten people and get ten different answers,
the big decision will be wich one is correct??
Tourer
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 426
Likes: 0
From: Illinois
RE: Another Stealer Stoy
I too dont care for the "stealership" references. It's a business, andmost treat it that way. I rode a poker run with the my salesman, clothing world doll, owner and daughter of my local DEALERship yesterday. Not one of them reached in my pocket all day long. Business was not a topic for the day.
There are so many variables it would be nearly impossible to give a concise "blanket" answer that X mufflers with Y size baffles will work when Z won’t on a stock tune. Baffle design (perforations, style, size, shape, number per sq/inch, etc) its self between two manufacturers can vary even when diameter of the core pipe is the same.
Your service writer was correct in advising you to at least put it on the dyno and match the performance to the NEW parts. Next time if you know the answer to the riddle, why stand for 15mins of his “salesmen” speech if you are not actually listening?
Just say no thanks and move on.
There are so many variables it would be nearly impossible to give a concise "blanket" answer that X mufflers with Y size baffles will work when Z won’t on a stock tune. Baffle design (perforations, style, size, shape, number per sq/inch, etc) its self between two manufacturers can vary even when diameter of the core pipe is the same.
Your service writer was correct in advising you to at least put it on the dyno and match the performance to the NEW parts. Next time if you know the answer to the riddle, why stand for 15mins of his “salesmen” speech if you are not actually listening?
Just say no thanks and move on.
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Another Stealer Story
Opinion from a guy that isn’t a master tuner or great vat of knowledge, but enjoys riding a great running bike with a little bit of sound.
The general consensus seems to be that changing the slip-ons to something in the same ballpark and leaving the A/C stock you can run the stock ecm and map without any problems and should run as good as stock. That being said, we all know the stock setup is very lean and not the best for long term or performance.
On my first go-round, I just wanted some more exhaust sound with minimum expense as I barely squeezed my first Harley into my budget and spending more money on it wasn’t in my plan. I just added slip-ons and was happy…for a little while. A stage 1 download and an AC then made me very happy…for a while (then I rode an 07 with a properly tuned SERT). My stage1 download experience is from back when HD still sold the “not-legal” Screaming Eagle II slip-ons and they weren’t so choked by the EPA. I don’t know if the current Stage1 download they are selling is very helpful or not.
On my next bike budgeting for pipes, AC, and tuner is part of the cost of the bike, especially with 07’s and newer. If you’re going ride the bike quite a bit, do yourself a favor and do it right and let that sucker breathe and run a little cooler.
I don’t have an opinion to push on which tuner is best, and I’ve seen a lot of pros and cons with each. Do your homework, search the forum. If someone else is going to install it, then it seems wise to listen to their favorite (assuming they can make it run well).
If you’re happy with slip-ons and the stock ecm/map, God Bless. Otherwise, it’s usually pay me now or pay me later.
Good luck
The general consensus seems to be that changing the slip-ons to something in the same ballpark and leaving the A/C stock you can run the stock ecm and map without any problems and should run as good as stock. That being said, we all know the stock setup is very lean and not the best for long term or performance.
On my first go-round, I just wanted some more exhaust sound with minimum expense as I barely squeezed my first Harley into my budget and spending more money on it wasn’t in my plan. I just added slip-ons and was happy…for a little while. A stage 1 download and an AC then made me very happy…for a while (then I rode an 07 with a properly tuned SERT). My stage1 download experience is from back when HD still sold the “not-legal” Screaming Eagle II slip-ons and they weren’t so choked by the EPA. I don’t know if the current Stage1 download they are selling is very helpful or not.
On my next bike budgeting for pipes, AC, and tuner is part of the cost of the bike, especially with 07’s and newer. If you’re going ride the bike quite a bit, do yourself a favor and do it right and let that sucker breathe and run a little cooler.
I don’t have an opinion to push on which tuner is best, and I’ve seen a lot of pros and cons with each. Do your homework, search the forum. If someone else is going to install it, then it seems wise to listen to their favorite (assuming they can make it run well).
If you’re happy with slip-ons and the stock ecm/map, God Bless. Otherwise, it’s usually pay me now or pay me later.
Good luck
Novice
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Another Stealer Stoy
The diameter of the pipe does matter when it comes to back pressure. It's the old garden hose example. The bigger the hose (larger diameter) you get more water (flow) but at a lower pressure (back pressure). The smaller the hose (smaller diameter) you get less water (flow) but at a higher pressure. Since he is not changing pipe diameter with the slip-ons, this really isn't an issue here.
Novice
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Another Stealer Stoy
The diameter of the pipe does matter when it comes to back pressure. It's the old garden hose example. The bigger the hose (larger diameter) you get more water (flow) but at a lower pressure (back pressure). The smaller the hose (smaller diameter) you get less water (flow) but at a higher pressure. Since he is not changing pipe diameter with the slip-ons, this really isn't an issue here.
Tourer
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 426
Likes: 0
From: Illinois
RE: Another Stealer Stoy
not to get into semantics or worse yet, off topic. My point was; even with the same diameter core just the different designs and use of materials steel mesh vs. fiber for example, can effect the flow (back pressure) of a muffler.
you cant just use a defaultthought (which I took to be his)that because the core is the same diameter, the flow wont vary much or change at alland we havent even tabledWHERE the flow is effected (reads; RPM's) yet.
Baffle design alonechanges the performance and THAT is why it should be checked once"ABC"slip-on has been selected and installed by the customeror dealer. Coupled with the knowledge the 08's are even leaner than before to change just the slip-ons is futile at best and will effect performance and rider comfort. The question remains, will his SOP meter detect it? mmmmm maybe!
Can you tell I really like my SERT andits ability to tune my bike myself or take it to any INDY I want?
you cant just use a defaultthought (which I took to be his)that because the core is the same diameter, the flow wont vary much or change at alland we havent even tabledWHERE the flow is effected (reads; RPM's) yet.
Baffle design alonechanges the performance and THAT is why it should be checked once"ABC"slip-on has been selected and installed by the customeror dealer. Coupled with the knowledge the 08's are even leaner than before to change just the slip-ons is futile at best and will effect performance and rider comfort. The question remains, will his SOP meter detect it? mmmmm maybe!
Can you tell I really like my SERT andits ability to tune my bike myself or take it to any INDY I want?
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Another Stealer Stoy
Harley is trying to make money they also throw some nice parties. I have no problem with them. I buy from my dealer and also buy from other places depending on what I need. I was at the dealer this weekendand I needed to adjust my shocks they put it on the lift and did it for me and adjusted my belt and just charged me $20. They could have charged me the 1/2 rate of about $40 but didn't. I also bought a rear seat later that day and was given a discount. I have owned a bussiness and the overhead is costly especially with the quality that harley has. Plus thelarge inventory is costly to keep on hand. For the most part you get what you payfor.
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