TTS -VS- Power Commander III.
Thread Starter
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,131
Likes: 651
From: Gettysburg, PA (For Now)
TTS -VS- Power Commander III.
I just had a set of Vance And Hines Big Shots Longs, a Harley Davidson "Heavy Breather" air cleaner kit and a Dynojet Power Commander III installed on a 2008 Heritage Softail Classic. The Harley dealership I bought the bike from strongly discouraged me from using the Power Commander III and highly recommended I use a TTS module. Their Dyno tech stated that the Power Commander III was no good for the bike. He stated that it did not make necessary use of the O2 sensors and was going to make the bike preform badly as opposed to if I had the TTS installed, instead. He also stated that it would cost $450.00 to set the dyno for the TTS. This cost more than the TTS itself($350.00). The non-harley shop I had do the actual work said it was a bunch of B/S. I called Dynojet, they too stated that it wasn't true. Are their major differences in the 2 modules, performance wise? Any actual experiences on this matter would be appreciated.
Tourer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 457
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
If you do a search of posts for the Power Commander or TTS you will find plenty of info. I wasnt sure of what i wanted as well but after reading many of the posts it helped me make my decission. First let me dispell a few non truths.
Most of what is out there can come preprogramed so you do not need a Dyno unless you have done some really major engine mods. Alot of people told me I needed to have a PC111 dyned, the reality is that there are plenty of maps out there that can be downloaded and installed. The PC111 can be easily installed by anyone as the ssam with the F1200r which I was also looking at. I was looking between the Fi200r, the PC111 USB and the TTS Mastertune. The Fi2000 and PC111 were close in price the master tune was slightly more.
My end choice was the PC111 A lot of people were trying to sell me on the fact that I needed to dyno the PC111 and I am sure it probably might slightly improve what I have now I but i know it would not be by much for the money I would have to spend on the Dyno.
I would contact Jamie at Fuel Moto as they sell the PC111 and the TTS and tell them what you are trying to achieve. The dealer did feed you a bunch of BS.
Again there is tons of comments on both here in the forum, good luck!
Most of what is out there can come preprogramed so you do not need a Dyno unless you have done some really major engine mods. Alot of people told me I needed to have a PC111 dyned, the reality is that there are plenty of maps out there that can be downloaded and installed. The PC111 can be easily installed by anyone as the ssam with the F1200r which I was also looking at. I was looking between the Fi200r, the PC111 USB and the TTS Mastertune. The Fi2000 and PC111 were close in price the master tune was slightly more.
My end choice was the PC111 A lot of people were trying to sell me on the fact that I needed to dyno the PC111 and I am sure it probably might slightly improve what I have now I but i know it would not be by much for the money I would have to spend on the Dyno.
I would contact Jamie at Fuel Moto as they sell the PC111 and the TTS and tell them what you are trying to achieve. The dealer did feed you a bunch of BS.
Again there is tons of comments on both here in the forum, good luck!
Thread Starter
|
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,131
Likes: 651
From: Gettysburg, PA (For Now)
If you do a search of posts for the Power Commander or TTS you will find plenty of info. I wasnt sure of what i wanted as well but after reading many of the posts it helped me make my decission. First let me dispell a few non truths.
Most of what is out there can come preprogramed so you do not need a Dyno unless you have done some really major engine mods. Alot of people told me I needed to have a PC111 dyned, the reality is that there are plenty of maps out there that can be downloaded and installed. The PC111 can be easily installed by anyone as the ssam with the F1200r which I was also looking at. I was looking between the Fi200r, the PC111 USB and the TTS Mastertune. The Fi2000 and PC111 were close in price the master tune was slightly more.
My end choice was the PC111 A lot of people were trying to sell me on the fact that I needed to dyno the PC111 and I am sure it probably might slightly improve what I have now I but i know it would not be by much for the money I would have to spend on the Dyno.
I would contact Jamie at Fuel Moto as they sell the PC111 and the TTS and tell them what you are trying to achieve. The dealer did feed you a bunch of BS.
Again there is tons of comments on both here in the forum, good luck!
Most of what is out there can come preprogramed so you do not need a Dyno unless you have done some really major engine mods. Alot of people told me I needed to have a PC111 dyned, the reality is that there are plenty of maps out there that can be downloaded and installed. The PC111 can be easily installed by anyone as the ssam with the F1200r which I was also looking at. I was looking between the Fi200r, the PC111 USB and the TTS Mastertune. The Fi2000 and PC111 were close in price the master tune was slightly more.
My end choice was the PC111 A lot of people were trying to sell me on the fact that I needed to dyno the PC111 and I am sure it probably might slightly improve what I have now I but i know it would not be by much for the money I would have to spend on the Dyno.
I would contact Jamie at Fuel Moto as they sell the PC111 and the TTS and tell them what you are trying to achieve. The dealer did feed you a bunch of BS.
Again there is tons of comments on both here in the forum, good luck!
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,227
Likes: 5
I don't know about the TTS but I do know a little about the PCIII. I installed mine a little over three years ago. I put true duals etc., and did not Dyno. The bike was running lean so I had it dyno'd. I could not believe the difference.
A year later I did the 95" cams, gear drive and had it dyno'd again. Three years and a great indy that knew how to use the dyno and I am still very happy with the PCIII results.
A year later I did the 95" cams, gear drive and had it dyno'd again. Three years and a great indy that knew how to use the dyno and I am still very happy with the PCIII results.
Banned
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 581
Likes: 0
From: Langley
Power Commander, TTS Mastertune, Screamin' Eagle Super Tuner
ANY bike from stock to highly modified benefits from a precise dyno tune performed by an experienced tech.
NOTE: Don't waste cash on Auto Tuners, DFO's or HD downloads!
ANY bike from stock to highly modified benefits from a precise dyno tune performed by an experienced tech.
NOTE: Don't waste cash on Auto Tuners, DFO's or HD downloads!
Last edited by skydoc; Jan 30, 2009 at 11:31 AM.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
As you said, the dealer is out of touch and simply wrong. A PCIII or PCV purchased from Fuel Moto does not require a dyno tune, as Jamie has many maps for almost any configuration imaginable, and they are accurate. The really trick setup is the PCIII or PCV with Dyno-tuned Jackpot mufflers and AC.
Last edited by iclick; Jan 30, 2009 at 11:12 AM.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,352
Likes: 7
From: Keene, CA
The best dyno tuner in the world is still working with a SIMULATOR. The TTS Mastertune works with reality. And really good dyno tuners are far outnumbered by the hacks.
The folks who claim that you can use a map from Jamie (or anyone else, for that matter) and get as good a tune are incorrect. There are too many variables from bike to bike. OTOH, a map from Jamie that is CLOSE beats the heck out of a poorly done dyno tune.
You pay your money and you make your choice. If you have access to a laptop and a little time you can get a great tune with the TTS Mastertune without having to find (and pay) a good dyno operator. As an added advantage, you can retune the bike whenever you make a change, and as it wears over the years.
If you don't want to go with a Mastertune, then it's simple - ask around and find out if you have access to a good dyno tuner. If not, call Jamie. If you do, talk to the dyno operator and see what they prefer - and go with that. Dyno tunes have a whole lot more to do with the operator than the hardware.
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Tourer
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 474
Likes: 2
From:
I've been down this road already.
First a PCIII, then a Thundermax with Autotune, and finally a TTS.
I an not saying that you can't get satisfactory results from a PCIII, but I had to get mine dynoed before I thought it ran correctly. And even then, the mileage was not good. Any Power Commander is a piggy back system. The PCIII eliminated the O2 sensors.
Then I tried the Thundermax with autotune. It worked fairly well, but I fought timing issues and finally gave up. Remember, the autotune function only auto tunes the AFR, not the timing. I was still getting poor fuel mileage. The Tmax is a replacement of the OEM ECM and O2 sensors.
The TTS finally got the bike where I wanted it. The bike runs great and the mileage is excellent. It is nearly 10 MPG better than with the dyno tuned PCIII. The TTS is a tuner. You attach it, program the OEM ECM, and remove it. I got great results from the Vtune program that came with the unit. As someone mentioned, you can use the Vtune with a laptop to tune your own bike without a dyno. It worked perfectly for me.
In my opinion, you would be crazy to remove the factory O2 sensor system from a 2007 and up bike.
The bottom line.........
I would use a dynoed PCIII or PCV(new version) for a 2006 or earlier fuel injected bike, but I would stick with a SERT or TTS for O2 equipped 2007 and later fuel injected Harley.
Just my $0.02.
First a PCIII, then a Thundermax with Autotune, and finally a TTS.
I an not saying that you can't get satisfactory results from a PCIII, but I had to get mine dynoed before I thought it ran correctly. And even then, the mileage was not good. Any Power Commander is a piggy back system. The PCIII eliminated the O2 sensors.
Then I tried the Thundermax with autotune. It worked fairly well, but I fought timing issues and finally gave up. Remember, the autotune function only auto tunes the AFR, not the timing. I was still getting poor fuel mileage. The Tmax is a replacement of the OEM ECM and O2 sensors.
The TTS finally got the bike where I wanted it. The bike runs great and the mileage is excellent. It is nearly 10 MPG better than with the dyno tuned PCIII. The TTS is a tuner. You attach it, program the OEM ECM, and remove it. I got great results from the Vtune program that came with the unit. As someone mentioned, you can use the Vtune with a laptop to tune your own bike without a dyno. It worked perfectly for me.
In my opinion, you would be crazy to remove the factory O2 sensor system from a 2007 and up bike.
The bottom line.........
I would use a dynoed PCIII or PCV(new version) for a 2006 or earlier fuel injected bike, but I would stick with a SERT or TTS for O2 equipped 2007 and later fuel injected Harley.
Just my $0.02.