Touring Models Road King, Road King Custom, Road King Classic, Road Glide, Street Glide, Electra Glide, Electra Glide Classic, and Electra Glide Ultra Classic bikes.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

why only 2?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old May 26, 2009 | 12:00 AM
  #11  
goodbirds's Avatar
goodbirds
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,395
Likes: 25
From: St George, UT
Lightbulb

My buddy's Nomad has 4 plugs too. It does make a difference. In airplanes with piston engines, there are two ignition systems. Turn one off, and you get about a 150 rpm drop. Most light aircraft engines are governed to about 2750 rpm so a good flame front is essential to efficient fuel burn. It would be a good improvement in gas mileage if HD engineered two plugs per cylinder.
 
Reply
Old May 26, 2009 | 12:35 AM
  #12  
Rkoetting's Avatar
Rkoetting
Cruiser
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 175
Likes: 1
From: Redding, CA
Default

BMW went back to the twin-plug design. My 2004 R1150RT and my 2006 R1200GSA both had twin plugs. Even with higher compression than a Harley, it only needed mid-grade gas, possibly related to the twin-plug?
 
Reply
Old May 26, 2009 | 12:40 AM
  #13  
swestbrook60's Avatar
swestbrook60
Outstanding HDF Member
15 Year Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,380
Likes: 9
From: Texas
Default

Originally Posted by goodbirds
My buddy's Nomad has 4 plugs too. It does make a difference. In airplanes with piston engines, there are two ignition systems. Turn one off, and you get about a 150 rpm drop. Most light aircraft engines are governed to about 2750 rpm so a good flame front is essential to efficient fuel burn. It would be a good improvement in gas mileage if HD engineered two plugs per cylinder.
Actually gas mileage is improved in today's engine by using only one spark park per cylinder and another benefit is the reduction of the NOx pollutants produced during combustion. If you are interested in why, there are many papers available online concerning "stratified charge combustion" which during the 80's and 90's radically changed how engineers approached the most efficient, and less harmful, burn during combustion. It was once thought that having a unified air/fuel mixture equally distributed in the combustion area would allow for the best "burn" but that has since changed. Today, engineers strive to provide a fuel rich mixture in a subcylinder area (usually around the perimeter of the cylinder) and then a center area which is very lean, or almost all air. As the burn flame enters the lean area, the cooling effect creates more CO and CO2 than any of the NOx so the pollutants are less. With this gas rich area, ignition is very easy since this mixture will burn very fast and smoothly so the need for additional spark plugs or exotic spark devices are no longer needed.

I would assume in an airplane engine that you refer to, there are two issues in play. First is the safety aspect of having two spark sources in the case of one failing in flight. Not being familiar with the engine design, I would also think the "subcyclinders" are designed to act as two independent burn areas within the cylinder which would explain the reduced HP if one spark source was cut off.

In the late 70's, I was on a team of engineers who worked years in developing various stratified charge enhancements in large industrial reciprocating engines. We were seeking a more efficient engine as just a 1% improvement can mean $ millions over the life of one of these machines.
 
Reply
Old May 26, 2009 | 05:02 AM
  #14  
dog155's Avatar
dog155
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 13,389
Likes: 26
From: Windham,Maine
Default

Most all the bros I know that dual plugged their heads saw no difference in performance.
 
Reply
Old May 26, 2009 | 05:06 AM
  #15  
hpfatboy's Avatar
hpfatboy
Banned
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,436
Likes: 13
Default

2 cylinders, 2 plugs WTF
 
Reply
Old May 26, 2009 | 05:16 AM
  #16  
KopperTop's Avatar
KopperTop
Road Captain
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 702
Likes: 1
From: U.S.S.A.
Thumbs up

Originally Posted by swestbrook60
Actually gas mileage is improved in today's engine by using only one spark park per cylinder and another benefit is the reduction of the NOx pollutants produced during combustion. If you are interested in why, there are many papers available online concerning "stratified charge combustion" which during the 80's and 90's radically changed how engineers approached the most efficient, and less harmful, burn during combustion. It was once thought that having a unified air/fuel mixture equally distributed in the combustion area would allow for the best "burn" but that has since changed. Today, engineers strive to provide a fuel rich mixture in a subcylinder area (usually around the perimeter of the cylinder) and then a center area which is very lean, or almost all air. As the burn flame enters the lean area, the cooling effect creates more CO and CO2 than any of the NOx so the pollutants are less. With this gas rich area, ignition is very easy since this mixture will burn very fast and smoothly so the need for additional spark plugs or exotic spark devices are no longer needed.

I would assume in an airplane engine that you refer to, there are two issues in play. First is the safety aspect of having two spark sources in the case of one failing in flight. Not being familiar with the engine design, I would also think the "subcyclinders" are designed to act as two independent burn areas within the cylinder which would explain the reduced HP if one spark source was cut off.

In the late 70's, I was on a team of engineers who worked years in developing various stratified charge enhancements in large industrial reciprocating engines. We were seeking a more efficient engine as just a 1% improvement can mean $ millions over the life of one of these machines.
Wow...awesome explanation! I feel like I was watching the Discovery Channel.
 
Reply
Old May 26, 2009 | 07:11 AM
  #17  
locodude's Avatar
locodude
Thread Starter
|
Road Captain
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
From: lone grove, oklahoma
Default

I did accidentally while changing the plugs left the rear two wires off and the bike ran seemed to have much less power but it did run.
 
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
nevadarider
General Harley Davidson Chat
37
May 26, 2019 07:18 PM
1981 suprglide
Shovelhead
21
Dec 26, 2018 08:55 AM
AJSHOVEL
Shovelhead
5
Sep 20, 2014 05:50 AM
fxs_hufee
Shovelhead
15
Oct 28, 2012 05:36 PM
srp00702
Engine Mechanical Topics
3
Sep 24, 2009 11:50 AM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:00 AM.

story-0
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles

Slideshow: The bar-and-shield logo shows up on far more than motorcycles, some of the company's most unexpected products have nothing to do with riding.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-29 16:50:35


VIEW MORE
story-1
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever

Slideshow: Not every Harley gets it right, but these are the ones that genuinely earned their reputation.

By Pouria Savadkouei | 2026-04-15 14:23:21


VIEW MORE
story-2
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever

Slideshow: From the troubled AMF years to modern misfires, these bikes earned reputations for reliability issues, questionable engineering, or disappointing performance.

By Pouria Savadkouei | 2026-04-01 20:01:09


VIEW MORE
story-3
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In

Slideshow: Killer Custom's "Jail Breaker" build focuses more on stance and visual aggression than mechanical overhaul.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-03-18 19:20:32


VIEW MORE
story-4
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?

Slideshow: The Swiss custom shop has taken a Harley Softail and stretched it into something so long and low that it looks closer to a rolling sculpture than a conventional motorcycle.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-03-07 16:15:30


VIEW MORE
story-5
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept

Slideshow: Harley-Davidson's new RMCR concept revives the café racer formula with modern hardware-and it may be exactly the reset the company needs.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-03-04 12:23:37


VIEW MORE
story-6
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II

Slideshow: A standard cruiser becomes an intricate metal canvas in the hands of a Swiss custom house known for pushing Harley-Davidson platforms far beyond their factory brief.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-02-24 18:19:44


VIEW MORE
story-7
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy

Slideshow: There is no shortage of great motorcycles to buy, but we would avoid these ten.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-02-19 14:50:51


VIEW MORE
story-8
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026

Slideshow: Harley-Davidson's challenges aren't abstract; they show up in dropping shipments, shrinking dealer traffic, and strategic decisions that aren't yet translating into growth.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-01-13 18:33:17


VIEW MORE
story-9
Southpaw Super Glide: A Left-Hand-Drive 1979 Harley FXE Built to Fit the Rider

Slideshow: Graeme Billington's left-hand-drive Shovelhead is as much about problem-solving as it is about classic Harley form.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2025-12-30 11:27:08


VIEW MORE