Considering Auto Tune for a PC V setup
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,921
Likes: 33
From: Lewisberry PA
Considering Auto Tune for a PC V setup
Guys, I have an 08 RK classic with the PCV and jackpots from Fuelmoto. I have a little deceleration pop and have been adjusting the ECM to take this out. It seems I get it out on a short ride and then it comes back on a long ride. This is making me consider adding the auto tune module to my set up.
I suspect the auto tune will take this out, but what are the other benefits to the auto tune? I understand if I add different mods, it will automatically adjust, but does the auto tune adjust for elevations, temperatures and other conditions? What are the other things I will benefit from the auto tune?
(I have called Keith for help on the deceleration pop).
Thanks
I suspect the auto tune will take this out, but what are the other benefits to the auto tune? I understand if I add different mods, it will automatically adjust, but does the auto tune adjust for elevations, temperatures and other conditions? What are the other things I will benefit from the auto tune?
(I have called Keith for help on the deceleration pop).
Thanks
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 279
Likes: 3
From: N. Alabama
The ECU uses information from the MAS to make corrections for atmospheric conditions. If your base MAP is dead on the AT will not help. The chances of your base MAP being right on is a crap shoot. Even if your base MAP is good the AT will make it better for your ride. I would not be without the AT because FuelMoto did not have a MAP for my setup. The one they sent me was not even close. The AT trim values were up to 25% from the base map. I like being able to change the AFR's to fine tune for power or economy. There are a lot of threads on this site on this subject. Iclick, for one, has written a lot about the PCV AT capabilities and function. Also the AT will adjust for any future mods you might make.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
I agree with Rodeking, but I also doubt seriously if adding AT will help at all with decel pop. The reason is that DynoJet and FM both recommend not using any target AFR's in the 0% column of the Target AFR tables, instead using zeroes which means running directly off the base map. In this case AT isn't doing anything at all to influence the fuel mixture.
I've heard all sorts of ideas on stopping this, although I can't speak from experience since I'm thankfully never had the problem. Some find that muffler leaks cause it and sealing with anti-sieze compound or high-heat silicone helps. Others have leaned the 0% column by adding negative values, yet others richening it with success.
So, I don't think AT is the solution for decel-pop issues. Further, I also think that AT is not necessary for most riders, as the Fuel Moto maps are accurate enough to produce excellent improvement in driveability and heat management. AT is for incorrigible tweakers like me and/or people who plan on making cumulative changes to their configuration (cams, head work, etc.).
I've heard all sorts of ideas on stopping this, although I can't speak from experience since I'm thankfully never had the problem. Some find that muffler leaks cause it and sealing with anti-sieze compound or high-heat silicone helps. Others have leaned the 0% column by adding negative values, yet others richening it with success.
So, I don't think AT is the solution for decel-pop issues. Further, I also think that AT is not necessary for most riders, as the Fuel Moto maps are accurate enough to produce excellent improvement in driveability and heat management. AT is for incorrigible tweakers like me and/or people who plan on making cumulative changes to their configuration (cams, head work, etc.).
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 282
Likes: 1
From: Las Vegas area
I will disagree with iclick.
Closed loop operation has many benefits over open-loop operation. A good dyno tune on an open loop system, even from the best tuner, is accurate at a particular snapshot in time, with a particular tank of fuel, air temperature, humidity, elevation, barometric pressure, air filter condition, engine condition, etc.
You will always get more accurate performance from a system that is able to adjust itself in real-time based on monitoring of the engine.
Whether those differences are 2% or 20% depending on the factors at play, I think a good closed loop system is always preferable. At $300ish, the AT module is the cost of a single good dyno tune.
Closed loop operation has many benefits over open-loop operation. A good dyno tune on an open loop system, even from the best tuner, is accurate at a particular snapshot in time, with a particular tank of fuel, air temperature, humidity, elevation, barometric pressure, air filter condition, engine condition, etc.
You will always get more accurate performance from a system that is able to adjust itself in real-time based on monitoring of the engine.
Whether those differences are 2% or 20% depending on the factors at play, I think a good closed loop system is always preferable. At $300ish, the AT module is the cost of a single good dyno tune.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
I will disagree with iclick.
Closed loop operation has many benefits over open-loop operation. A good dyno tune on an open loop system, even from the best tuner, is accurate at a particular snapshot in time, with a particular tank of fuel, air temperature, humidity, elevation, barometric pressure, air filter condition, engine condition, etc.
Closed loop operation has many benefits over open-loop operation. A good dyno tune on an open loop system, even from the best tuner, is accurate at a particular snapshot in time, with a particular tank of fuel, air temperature, humidity, elevation, barometric pressure, air filter condition, engine condition, etc.
Moving away from the decel-pop issue now, we should not forget that the stock ECU has the MAP sensor and two temperature sensors that compensate for most of the items on your list above, except possibly the type of fuel. In that case AT won't help since it doesn't auto-tune ignition advance. Call Jamie at Fuel Moto and I believe he will verify this. Furthermore, running AT on my '07 SG from a map created by Fuel Moto showed almost no changes to the AT trim tables. The FM bike was an '07 RK dynoed in WI under colder conditions, 1000' above sea level, and 17% humidity. My '07 SG was trimmed at >50% humidity in much warmer weather and at <50ft. above sea level. This is a testimony to the accuracy and consistency of the map created in one location and run in another, as well as the ability of the various sensors to compensate for temperature, humidity, and altitude.
You will always get more accurate performance from a system that is able to adjust itself in real-time based on monitoring of the engine.
Whether those differences are 2% or 20% depending on the factors at play, I think a good closed loop system is always preferable. At $300ish, the AT module is the cost of a single good dyno tune.
Last edited by iclick; Jun 13, 2009 at 11:05 PM.
Thread Starter
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,921
Likes: 33
From: Lewisberry PA
Thanks for you input guys. I think I understand ICLICKs point on the decel issue. Still am considering the auto tune to see if it adjusts other areas for better performance.
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Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 189
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From: Clancy,Montana
I had decel pop until i put -30 in the zero column of the tp, I put the -30 fron 1750 t0 5000 rpms and that took care of the decel issue on short and long trips
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 63
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From: Angel Fire, New Mexico
I live at 8700 ft elevation and a normal ride will have me between 6500 ft and 10,600 ft elevation, Will auto tune be an advantage to me? Bike seems to run fine but I would like it to be perfect. Thanks in advance.
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 279
Likes: 3
From: N. Alabama
It sounds like you have contracted the "Tweaking Syndrome" also. AT is the cure. I take my laptop with me on trips and irk the crap out of my friends by hooking up to my PCV AT at rest stops. I leave the usb cord attached to the PCV and keep the PC end with the Gerbing cords stuffed in the flap on the drivers back rest flap. I am still looking for the perfect MAP for my ride. AT will change trim to keep the correct AFR's, which are selected by you, as you ride. In my opinion it is like a constant dyno tune. I have three sets of muffs, and now I change them if I want quiet, medium or loud and let old AT compensate. Just like it does if I am one or two up. If AT had the ability to auto advance and/or retard time to prevent detonation, it would be perfect. IMHO