What's wrong with Stage One Download.
Road Master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 997
Likes: 3
From: Charlotte, N.C.
There is nothing wrong with the stage 1 download when it comes to function. The biggest problem is the cost, at 150bucks its more cost effective to run a tuner that you can change when u want, and with the SERT costing more than $400 this is more expensive than the basic tuners also. However the HD stock ECU is designed to be programed and reprogrammed in order to adapt to whatever application you will be using for you bike i.e. fuel mileage or performance. The SERT is superior in that it uses the stock ECU to achieve a target AFR and most aftermarket tuners just blindly dump fuel into the engine not taking into consideration the close loop information that the O2 sensors are producing so you wast fuel when your cruising sometimes. The stage one download takes you from 14.6:1 to approximately 14:1 in the close loop range and goes anywhere from 13.5:1 to 12:7 outside 70 or 80% throttle so yes harleys actually run rich in these W.O.T. areas. If you look at any PCV map you will see the negative percentage numbers in these areas. The ideal setup would be to use the stage one download for the 103cu in. Even better than that would be to get the SERT super tuner and then you can enter the AFR values that you want at the dyno which would cost approximately 700bucks including dyno time.
1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: Merrillville, In
Save your money on the PC, for a stock bike with a stage 1 kit it's over kill, all you do is waste gas. I ordered a kit from Fuelmoto, A/C, PC III pre-mapped and Jackpot mufflers, nice setup, nice sound, noticeable increase in performance. Had issues w/pcIII and Harley Thorttle by wire control, bike would shut off itermittenly at idle. Dumped the PCIII, Installed Xied from nightrider.com, no more problems, bike runs just as strong while getting better gas mileage. Like someone posted earlier, the factory closed loop system keeps AFR @ 14.6 or so, what the Xied does is go inline with your O2 sensor to fool the computer to think the bike is running leaner than it actually is, thus adding a little more gas to richen up your AFR back to what it thinks is 14.6. They work great, only cost $70 bucks. Also the harley closed loop control is in effect at idle up to about 4000 RPM or below 40 percent throttle position, after that it is open loop with a preset AFR of about 13:1 which is plenty for a stage 1 setup. There is a website HarleyTuning.com that explains the harley Fuel injection system very well.
JUST MY TWO CENTS.
JUST MY TWO CENTS.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
Fuel Moto sells the PCV (Power Commander 5) for $300 with a double-warranty and lifetime maps and support. They install a map that was created from a dyno-tune at their facility on a like bike with like equipment. Do a search here for feedback reports from owners. There are other tuners that are even cheaper, but are feature-deficient by comparison.
Club Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,582
Likes: 72
From: North East
Fuel Moto sells the PCV (Power Commander 5) for $300 with a double-warranty and lifetime maps and support. They install a map that was created from a dyno-tune at their facility on a like bike with like equipment. Do a search here for feedback reports from owners. There are other tuners that are even cheaper, but are feature-deficient by comparison.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
The SERT is superior in that it uses the stock ECU to achieve a target AFR and most aftermarket tuners just blindly dump fuel into the engine not taking into consideration the close loop information that the O2 sensors are producing so you wast fuel when your cruising sometimes.
The stage one download takes you from 14.6:1 to approximately 14:1 in the close loop range and goes anywhere from 13.5:1 to 12:7 outside 70 or 80% throttle so yes harleys actually run rich in these W.O.T. areas. If you look at any PCV map you will see the negative percentage numbers in these areas.
Even better than that would be to get the SERT super tuner and then you can enter the AFR values that you want at the dyno which would cost approximately 700bucks including dyno time.
Last edited by iclick; Feb 24, 2010 at 04:19 PM.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
Like someone posted earlier, the factory closed loop system keeps AFR @ 14.6 or so, what the Xied does is go inline with your O2 sensor to fool the computer to think the bike is running leaner than it actually is, thus adding a little more gas to richen up your AFR back to what it thinks is 14.6.
BTW, your issues with the PCIII are an anomaly and shouldn't be considered normal. Did Fuel Moto replace the unit or offer to do so?
Also the harley closed loop control is in effect at idle up to about 4000 RPM or below 40 percent throttle position, after that it is open loop with a preset AFR of about 13:1 which is plenty for a stage 1 setup.
There is a website HarleyTuning.com that explains the harley Fuel injection system very well.
There is a website HarleyTuning.com that explains the harley Fuel injection system very well.
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Joe Kucinski
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,928
Likes: 1
From: Desert S. West
I used to recommend the Xied's for an easy and quick solution to the heat issue but then I found out they cause the O2 sensors to fail prematurely. That pretty much takes away any cost benefit from them. Plus they only run in closed loop while a genuine tuner, like TTS, works all the time. Not to mention all the possible adjustments that can be made.
The 103 download does make sense for a TC96. Probably not quite legal for a dealership to do but I can see the benefit.
The 103 download does make sense for a TC96. Probably not quite legal for a dealership to do but I can see the benefit.
