Tw6-6 install
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 25
From: NorCal
First thing I would do is call FuelMoto and see if they can tweak the map for you.
That, however, is just a bandaid. The problem is that there is a large variance in the cc's of the HD fuel injectors. I think it's around the order of a 10% tolerance. So, conceivably, your bike could be off in its fueling by 20% if the bike FM dynoed was on the low side and yours happens to be on the high side. It's also possible to have a variance between the front and rear cylinder. There are other production variances as well that can contribute to canned maps not behaving correctly.
So, that said, the only really good solution is to get your bike dynoed.
My buddy with a '09 Road King got a power commander and exhaust from FM. Their maps for the stage I with Rineharts worked great. After the switch to TW6-6 cams and a Thunderheader he called FM for a map. Ran like crap. Took it to RC Cycles to get dynoed, and now the thing runs awesome. A gain over 15hp from the FM map.
My bike has very similar mods, and runs awesome. Almost as fast as my other buddy's 103 with 251 cams (also a Street Glide).
I'm not knocking FuelMoto here. I like FuelMoto and think they're great. I'll be buying one of their head pipes in the near future.
I'm sure they have dynoed hundreds of bikes that run great, and also have hundreds if not thousands of customers satisfied with canned maps. I'm just saying it may be a case of a canned map not working so well with your particular bike.
That, however, is just a bandaid. The problem is that there is a large variance in the cc's of the HD fuel injectors. I think it's around the order of a 10% tolerance. So, conceivably, your bike could be off in its fueling by 20% if the bike FM dynoed was on the low side and yours happens to be on the high side. It's also possible to have a variance between the front and rear cylinder. There are other production variances as well that can contribute to canned maps not behaving correctly.
So, that said, the only really good solution is to get your bike dynoed.
My buddy with a '09 Road King got a power commander and exhaust from FM. Their maps for the stage I with Rineharts worked great. After the switch to TW6-6 cams and a Thunderheader he called FM for a map. Ran like crap. Took it to RC Cycles to get dynoed, and now the thing runs awesome. A gain over 15hp from the FM map.
My bike has very similar mods, and runs awesome. Almost as fast as my other buddy's 103 with 251 cams (also a Street Glide).
I'm not knocking FuelMoto here. I like FuelMoto and think they're great. I'll be buying one of their head pipes in the near future.
I'm sure they have dynoed hundreds of bikes that run great, and also have hundreds if not thousands of customers satisfied with canned maps. I'm just saying it may be a case of a canned map not working so well with your particular bike.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 25
From: NorCal
And there's nothing wrong with a Power Commander. They're great tuning tools. No need to buy a TTS or Supertuner if you already have the PCV.
Another option is to just add the Autotune module to the PCV. That should correct the problem. Probably will cost less than a dyno tune.
Another option is to just add the Autotune module to the PCV. That should correct the problem. Probably will cost less than a dyno tune.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,582
Likes: 2
From: Central Jersey
You most likely need your bike dynoed or a different canned map...it will run much better. Jamie can also help...they are a GREAT bunch of guys there willing to help.
Last edited by 1sweetglide08; Jun 4, 2010 at 12:55 PM.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
I just picked my bike up after have a woods TW6-6 cam installation on my 2010 Road Glide Custom. I have a Ness big sucker, D&D fat cat 2 into 1 exhaust, PCV with fuel moto map, and stock 96".
Give it slight throttle in any gear and the bike sputters or slightly boggs down. Cruising at 2700 rpm, 70 mph with cruise control on in 6th gear and the bike misses out and an ocassional backfire (give it throttle and it doesn't go anywhere). Any suggestions?
Give it slight throttle in any gear and the bike sputters or slightly boggs down. Cruising at 2700 rpm, 70 mph with cruise control on in 6th gear and the bike misses out and an ocassional backfire (give it throttle and it doesn't go anywhere). Any suggestions?
If the whole package was installed together it would be difficult to diagnose the problem, as it could be anything. Who installed the cams, and did he test-ride it after the job was completed? It could be any of the following, not exclusive of other possibilities:
1. Cams were not installed properly.
2. A pin may have been bent while attaching the PCV.
3. Water may have entered the ECU/PCV connector (doubtful).
4. The map may not be correct for the bike.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
That, however, is just a bandaid. The problem is that there is a large variance in the cc's of the HD fuel injectors. I think it's around the order of a 10% tolerance. So, conceivably, your bike could be off in its fueling by 20% if the bike FM dynoed was on the low side and yours happens to be on the high side.
So, that said, the only really good solution is to get your bike dynoed.
My buddy with a '09 Road King got a power commander and exhaust from FM. Their maps for the stage I with Rineharts worked great. After the switch to TW6-6 cams and a Thunderheader he called FM for a map. Ran like crap. Took it to RC Cycles to get dynoed, and now the thing runs awesome. A gain over 15hp from the FM map.
I'm not knocking FuelMoto here. I like FuelMoto and think they're great.
I'm sure they have dynoed hundreds of bikes that run great, and also have hundreds if not thousands of customers satisfied with canned maps. I'm just saying it may be a case of a canned map not working so well with your particular bike.
Last edited by iclick; Jun 4, 2010 at 01:42 PM.
I have corresponded with this customer, we do not like to speculate however as a starting point I highly recommended checking the cam installation to make sure the cams were installed and timed properly as we have ran into this issue several times over the years while trying to diagnose a tuning issue after a cam install. As far as the map, we have well over 100 customers out there running this specific map with no issues, and is also the base map we start out with when we do a TW6-6 cam install/dyno tune in house and I can say firsthand that we have never seen anything like the issue described, and to have this issue as described something is way wrong. I have also sent the OP a different map to try.
__________________
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Some questions: Give us the sequence of events. Was the PCV in use before the cams were installed? Did you change maps after the cam swap?
If the whole package was installed together it would be difficult to diagnose the problem, as it could be anything. Who installed the cams, and did he test-ride it after the job was completed? It could be any of the following, not exclusive of other possibilities:
1. Cams were not installed properly.
2. A pin may have been bent while attaching the PCV.
3. Water may have entered the ECU/PCV connector (doubtful).
4. The map may not be correct for the bike.
If the whole package was installed together it would be difficult to diagnose the problem, as it could be anything. Who installed the cams, and did he test-ride it after the job was completed? It could be any of the following, not exclusive of other possibilities:
1. Cams were not installed properly.
2. A pin may have been bent while attaching the PCV.
3. Water may have entered the ECU/PCV connector (doubtful).
4. The map may not be correct for the bike.
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,220
Likes: 2
From: iowa
I am with Fuel Moto on this one. I have watched Jamie in action and their customer support is second to none.
Jeff
Jeff
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Club Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,335
Likes: 0
From: Tidewater
OK, here it is...David (Sancho) is busy with family business. The bike is at Ed's in Dallas, the Dyno Difference. There it WILL get properly diagnosed, properly tuned and no doubt Sancho will be delighted when he gets it back. I'll not knock anybody's ability nor will I attempt to HIGHJACK this thread, like previously has happened. This is not a pissing match, he simply asked some questions. Probably best bet as Jamie said, the cams are installed wrong, thats where I place my money in this wager. That being said, the PCV is an adequate tuning device, but to get all you can out of any build, even a cam only, there are better tools and a canned map is adequate, not the same in every bike. I am and have always been and will continue to be a proponent of hands on tuning, by qualified persons with knowledge and experience. I would not support any 'device' that circumvented the O2 sensor...maybe there is a bonifide reason they are there? I am certainly no expert but I know at least one, that I trust implicitly. BTW, the PCV was on the bike BEFORE the cam install. Jamie verified and re-verified the base map as correct. , so that's not the issue. Canned maps are just that, canned. Work in most bikes most of the time, ADEQUATELY> If you want it tuned to YOUR PARTICULAR bike, you need to get it dialed in, in person...Ed was the closest to Sancho, and based on his reputation, I don't think anybody will take any cheap shots at him, but then again, this is HDF!