cam timing off. need help please
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,846
Likes: 173
From: Simi Valley, CA
Hey 09ultraclassicrider... you're pretty lucky with this thread. A lot of technical threads I read like this one are filled with so much mis-information that I feel sorry for the person asking the question. But so far, I haven't seen anything technically incorrect in this one to this point. You're getting good information!
As far as the 103 or 107 kit... Do it yourself. Like you said, the learning process along with the satisfaction you'll get by doing it yourself will be worth it. If you can make it through a cam change you can certainly make it through a jugs/piston change.
Same for whatever tuner you decide on. These autotune set-ups available now make tuning so much easier. Just get one with the wideband sensors and autotune feature and you can dial it in yourself pretty darn close. A dyno may get you a little more on a chart but I doubt if the seat of your pants will feel the difference. Remember, this is a street bike, not a race machine, so you don't need every last ounce of torque/horsepower.
As far as the 103 or 107 kit... Do it yourself. Like you said, the learning process along with the satisfaction you'll get by doing it yourself will be worth it. If you can make it through a cam change you can certainly make it through a jugs/piston change.
Same for whatever tuner you decide on. These autotune set-ups available now make tuning so much easier. Just get one with the wideband sensors and autotune feature and you can dial it in yourself pretty darn close. A dyno may get you a little more on a chart but I doubt if the seat of your pants will feel the difference. Remember, this is a street bike, not a race machine, so you don't need every last ounce of torque/horsepower.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,410
Likes: 8
From: Knoxville, TN
I don't think the OP should attempt this without someone to assist him, that's done pistons before.
He'll need to check ring gap, get the rings in correct alignment, yada yada....
I'm from Nashville and if he can hold off until January, I'd be glad to help him.
A dealer won't allow him to stand there and watch, to learn...and I'd be surprised if FuelMoto would, either.
He'll need to check ring gap, get the rings in correct alignment, yada yada....
I'm from Nashville and if he can hold off until January, I'd be glad to help him.
A dealer won't allow him to stand there and watch, to learn...and I'd be surprised if FuelMoto would, either.
Road Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 862
Likes: 1
From: N Dak
I don't think the OP should attempt this without someone to assist him, that's done pistons before.
He'll need to check ring gap, get the rings in correct alignment, yada yada....
I'm from Nashville and if he can hold off until January, I'd be glad to help him.
A dealer won't allow him to stand there and watch, to learn...and I'd be surprised if FuelMoto would, either.
He'll need to check ring gap, get the rings in correct alignment, yada yada....
I'm from Nashville and if he can hold off until January, I'd be glad to help him.
A dealer won't allow him to stand there and watch, to learn...and I'd be surprised if FuelMoto would, either.
I might be wrong but I think I read in the 107 thread by Fuelmoto that they do everything for you as for ring gap and such. I am sure they can move if you mess with them but from what I understand Jamie sends this kit out ready for install. I think I also read that there was no need for a ring compressor. If Jamie sees this I am sure he will pipe in and correct me.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
From: White House, Tennessee
Forget the timing marks...
(Assuming you have installed the cams correctly, of course.)
Rotate the wheel (which rotates the engine), while holding your finger on top of the intake lifter. When the intake lifter raises, that piston is on the intake stroke. Once the intake lifter drops and then bottoms out, and the piston is on the way up again, that is the compression stroke. Put your finger over the spark plug hole, and you will feel the air pushing against your finger. Place a long drinking straw in the spark plug hole, BE CAREFUL NOT TO LET IT SLIP ALL THE WAY INSIDE! With the piston on the compression stroke, it will push the straw up. When the straw stops moving up, the piston is at Top Dead Center (TDC). You may go a little passed TDC (the straw will begin to drop), but you can rotate the engine back and then forward again to get it correct. Feel the lifters again, to be sure they are both down, and level with each other. This is the beginning of the power stroke of the cylinder, and the lifters should be on the base circle of the cams which is where you need to be at to adjust the push rods OF THAT CYLINDER. You can go a little further than TDC, since the valves/lifters should not start to raise again until the exhaust stroke begins. Once you have installed one set of pushrods, let it set for (manual says 10 minutes but I like 30 minutes at least). THEN move to the next cylinder, and follow the same directions for it...
I think some one said you could turn the engine backwards... (Might have been in another thread I just read tho)
You can, but this will introduce slack to the wrong side of the cam chains, which is not putting the cams in the correct position. I always like to back off enuff (if I have to), and then roll forward again, to keep slack in the cam chain on the correct side. (Of course, if yer runnin geared cams this is a moot point!)
(Assuming you have installed the cams correctly, of course.)
Rotate the wheel (which rotates the engine), while holding your finger on top of the intake lifter. When the intake lifter raises, that piston is on the intake stroke. Once the intake lifter drops and then bottoms out, and the piston is on the way up again, that is the compression stroke. Put your finger over the spark plug hole, and you will feel the air pushing against your finger. Place a long drinking straw in the spark plug hole, BE CAREFUL NOT TO LET IT SLIP ALL THE WAY INSIDE! With the piston on the compression stroke, it will push the straw up. When the straw stops moving up, the piston is at Top Dead Center (TDC). You may go a little passed TDC (the straw will begin to drop), but you can rotate the engine back and then forward again to get it correct. Feel the lifters again, to be sure they are both down, and level with each other. This is the beginning of the power stroke of the cylinder, and the lifters should be on the base circle of the cams which is where you need to be at to adjust the push rods OF THAT CYLINDER. You can go a little further than TDC, since the valves/lifters should not start to raise again until the exhaust stroke begins. Once you have installed one set of pushrods, let it set for (manual says 10 minutes but I like 30 minutes at least). THEN move to the next cylinder, and follow the same directions for it...
I think some one said you could turn the engine backwards... (Might have been in another thread I just read tho)
You can, but this will introduce slack to the wrong side of the cam chains, which is not putting the cams in the correct position. I always like to back off enuff (if I have to), and then roll forward again, to keep slack in the cam chain on the correct side. (Of course, if yer runnin geared cams this is a moot point!)
I am finally putting it back together. I put all 4 adjustable pushrods in and waited for them to bleed down and the first one I did (rear cylinder intake) will not turn freely. I haven't seen on any of the threads how to fix this. Do I just redo that cylinder or is there another trick to fixing it?
Thanks in advance.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,846
Likes: 173
From: Simi Valley, CA
ok,
I am finally putting it back together. I put all 4 adjustable pushrods in and waited for them to bleed down and the first one I did (rear cylinder intake) will not turn freely. I haven't seen on any of the threads how to fix this. Do I just redo that cylinder or is there another trick to fixing it?
Thanks in advance.
I am finally putting it back together. I put all 4 adjustable pushrods in and waited for them to bleed down and the first one I did (rear cylinder intake) will not turn freely. I haven't seen on any of the threads how to fix this. Do I just redo that cylinder or is there another trick to fixing it?
Thanks in advance.
Remember earlier posts... Each individual cam lobe must be on it's base circle when you adjust the corresponding pushrod. You'll need to rotate the engine to do this. You can't just adjust all the pushrods at one time.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
From: White House, Tennessee
No I had both cyclinders at TDC to install the PR. I got it fixed. They turn much easier when you dont have them under load. Once I turned the rear wheel and relieved the tension, both pushrods turned freely. I checked the front cylinder and one of them didnt turn. I had a DUH moment. All the pushrods are good now.
Last edited by 09ultraclassicrider; Dec 4, 2010 at 08:14 PM.
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,846
Likes: 173
From: Simi Valley, CA
No I had both cyclinders at TDC to install the PR. I got it fixed. They turn much easier when you dont have them under load. Once I turned the rear wheel and relieved the tension, both pushrods turned freely. I checked the front cylinder and one of them didnt turn. I had a DUH moment. All the pushrods are good now.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
From: White House, Tennessee
are you talking about turning them out 2.5 turns and locking the nut or is there something else you are refering too? Do they need additional adjustment other than the 2.5 turns?