Dyno tune or auto tune?
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Joined: Nov 2009
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From: Central AL
Dyno tune or auto tune?
Ok, my third post in a row. Not trying to up post count but wanted to separate the questions.
I'm trying to decide what tuner to get when I get new a/c, pipes, etc. My dealer uses TTS Mastertune and have 2 friends that have had them tune their bikes and they are really happy with the results. I only plan to Stage I but realize that could change down the road. I'm pretty sure I don't want another add-on (had PC3 on last bike) but rather an ECU flash like Mastertune, HD SERT (whatever the hell they call it now), or the Dynojet Vision.
Has anyone that has one of these (or other ones) with the auto tune ability ever had the bike dyno'd to see how good the auto tune works? I'm not sure if my dealer is this way but I've read about dealers just loading the closest map and dyno for show and call it done. I don't want to spend a fortune but want a well tuned bike when it is done.
I'm trying to decide what tuner to get when I get new a/c, pipes, etc. My dealer uses TTS Mastertune and have 2 friends that have had them tune their bikes and they are really happy with the results. I only plan to Stage I but realize that could change down the road. I'm pretty sure I don't want another add-on (had PC3 on last bike) but rather an ECU flash like Mastertune, HD SERT (whatever the hell they call it now), or the Dynojet Vision.
Has anyone that has one of these (or other ones) with the auto tune ability ever had the bike dyno'd to see how good the auto tune works? I'm not sure if my dealer is this way but I've read about dealers just loading the closest map and dyno for show and call it done. I don't want to spend a fortune but want a well tuned bike when it is done.
Road Captain
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 507
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From: Portland, OR
LOL, might as well be talking about oil!
I know there are plenty of folks who dyno after every change, but I think it's a waste to chase 2-3 HP with $300-500 for a dyno if the bike is running well with a proven map. On a stage 1 anyway.
TTS is a gold standard for fuel mgmt, and even better if that's what your shop specializes in.
I absolutely KNOW that you are correct about some dealers using a dyno just to confirm a dload and charge big $$. My closest dealer guy recommended a dyno tune with an SE a/c on my wife's bike. I tested his honesty by asking how long he thought it would take. He said "about an hour." Ripoff time.
I know there are plenty of folks who dyno after every change, but I think it's a waste to chase 2-3 HP with $300-500 for a dyno if the bike is running well with a proven map. On a stage 1 anyway.
TTS is a gold standard for fuel mgmt, and even better if that's what your shop specializes in.
I absolutely KNOW that you are correct about some dealers using a dyno just to confirm a dload and charge big $$. My closest dealer guy recommended a dyno tune with an SE a/c on my wife's bike. I tested his honesty by asking how long he thought it would take. He said "about an hour." Ripoff time.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,432
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From: FL
I did the TTS on my last bike and did a total of three changes. Everytime, I was thankful for the TTS. Just like mfuchs2004 said, it's the gold standard but it's also like oil ... you're going to get a million responses and everyone has thier own opinion.
Just bought a new bike myself, I'm going TTS again. Good luck!
Just bought a new bike myself, I'm going TTS again. Good luck!
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2007
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From:
I’ve had two bikes tuned on a dyno using the Harley tuners. It’s fine if you want to spend the money and you have a good tuner.
I’ve done one bike with the Master Tuner and dyno. It turned out real well also. The Master Tuner gives the tuner a little more access to the computer like exponential control on the fly by wire throttles and other parameters not in the Super Tuner. Again it depends on the tuner how well it turns out.
I installed the Thunder Max with auto tune on one bike and still had to have timing adjusted. I had a problem with the fuel pump initiation circuit in the first year. I called a dealer about helping me fix it and he pretty much told me to go to someone else. He also told me warranty was void. I’ve heard all the stories about they have to prove that the tuner was the cause and all that stuff however when it gets down to it who’s going to tell the dealer that and make him work on my bike. Anyway I removed it and threw it in the trash. I reinstalled the stock computer and had it set up on the dyno with the Super Tuner. I’ve been very pleased with the performance.
I’ve done one bike with the Master Tuner and dyno. It turned out real well also. The Master Tuner gives the tuner a little more access to the computer like exponential control on the fly by wire throttles and other parameters not in the Super Tuner. Again it depends on the tuner how well it turns out.
I installed the Thunder Max with auto tune on one bike and still had to have timing adjusted. I had a problem with the fuel pump initiation circuit in the first year. I called a dealer about helping me fix it and he pretty much told me to go to someone else. He also told me warranty was void. I’ve heard all the stories about they have to prove that the tuner was the cause and all that stuff however when it gets down to it who’s going to tell the dealer that and make him work on my bike. Anyway I removed it and threw it in the trash. I reinstalled the stock computer and had it set up on the dyno with the Super Tuner. I’ve been very pleased with the performance.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2007
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if your a total gearhead and may be changing gearing the tts is the way to go.just a stg1 and maybe cams down the road,pcv with fuelmoto"s free maps,or maybe add autotune.dont know much about the new vision,but if it saves the dyno $ i would go that route as well,its not just the cost of a tune its never knowing what mood the tech is in that day.
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From: Central AL
Thanks for the help!
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: Maple Valley, WA.
I will throw another tuner into the mix. I just installed a Revolution Performance EMS on my 2010 Ultra. I love it. Just install the unit on the bike and Rev Perf. flashes the ECU with a starter map, start the bike let it warm up (auto tune time) and you are done. No maps, no Dyno's nothing. You can change pipes, headers, cams, even do big bore kits up to 20% (96 to 107) with no adjustment. Just let the bike warm up and ride. I installed this tuner with a AN A/C, and CFR pipes. The bike started better and ran smoother before it even before it had a chance to warm up. You could hear the motor adjusting itself and by the time the RPM got to 900 the bike just purred. Turned it off, put my boots, then fired up the bike and went for a ride. Perfect tune. No decel pop, spudder, backfire, nothing.
I don't have any comparison to a dyno but they claim this unit will be within a pony or two of a dyno.
the other thing I like is that this unit keeps all of the factory safeguards. Not all units do this, especialy add on units. Also keeps all factory trouble codes as the "tuner" uses the factory ECM. My understanding of the unit is that it allows the HD ECU to read and write to the AFR and VE tables using wide ban O2 sensors.
Just another option in the vast world of tuners. But if you are not planing anything crazy but want to have the ability to change at a later time with maps and dynos this might work very well for you. They run about $640 if you look around. They are new as of November but I believe they just came out in Drag catalog. Also, Drago's bike works a sponser on this site is selling them for a very good price.
Of course if you are looking for crazy, I did talk to one guy who was working with Rev Perf to come up with a EMS tuner that will work for supercharged bikes!!
I don't have any comparison to a dyno but they claim this unit will be within a pony or two of a dyno.
the other thing I like is that this unit keeps all of the factory safeguards. Not all units do this, especialy add on units. Also keeps all factory trouble codes as the "tuner" uses the factory ECM. My understanding of the unit is that it allows the HD ECU to read and write to the AFR and VE tables using wide ban O2 sensors.
Just another option in the vast world of tuners. But if you are not planing anything crazy but want to have the ability to change at a later time with maps and dynos this might work very well for you. They run about $640 if you look around. They are new as of November but I believe they just came out in Drag catalog. Also, Drago's bike works a sponser on this site is selling them for a very good price.
Of course if you are looking for crazy, I did talk to one guy who was working with Rev Perf to come up with a EMS tuner that will work for supercharged bikes!!
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Joined: Mar 2010
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From: MA
I have never used any of these products but am starting to consider them. I had a well known tuner tell me this: I hVW started to see a MAJOR tuning issue on the '10 & '11 touring models where the VE tables are pressure based not throttle based using the SE tuner. He recommended the PCV. Not sure what it all means.
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From my experience I say get the TTS. I don't know how easy the Vtune is to dial in, but it is part of the package so no harm in trying. I went to Docs performance tuning in Florida and had a dyno. My bike runs fantastic. This summer I plan on making a map or two of my own just to see how well I can manage the Vtune. Maybe I'll try a map for best fuel mileage and one for top performance. Doc set me up for a combination of the two, and I could not be happier with the results.
Before the TTS I tried the Power Commander V. A lot of people have very good results with it and are very happy, but I was not one of them. I tried custom maps from Fuel Moto, there is no lack of support from those guys, but I just could not get one that was right, I tried the auto tune, that did not work either, I even had the bike dynoed, that should have worked but it is very hard to find a good dyno tech, a lot of people do it, but not many know how to do it. I was tired of wasting time and money, so I gave up on it and went to Docs and got the TTS.
Very easy to spend a lot of money. I think it is better to go with the TTS Mastertune, try the Vtune if you like, if you end up needing a dyno, don't waste any money on people who say they can but know nothing, just go straight to Doc, make a trip out of it, have some fun. If Doc is to far away, call him and get a reference, he trains TTS tuners for the Mastertune company, if there is a good one in your area, Doc will point you to him. At least call him and talk about what you should do.
Hope that helps
Here is the link to Docs web site: http://www.docsperformancetuning.com/
Doc's Performance Tuning
352-404-6999 317 E Washington St. unit A
Minneola, Florida 34715
Before the TTS I tried the Power Commander V. A lot of people have very good results with it and are very happy, but I was not one of them. I tried custom maps from Fuel Moto, there is no lack of support from those guys, but I just could not get one that was right, I tried the auto tune, that did not work either, I even had the bike dynoed, that should have worked but it is very hard to find a good dyno tech, a lot of people do it, but not many know how to do it. I was tired of wasting time and money, so I gave up on it and went to Docs and got the TTS.
Very easy to spend a lot of money. I think it is better to go with the TTS Mastertune, try the Vtune if you like, if you end up needing a dyno, don't waste any money on people who say they can but know nothing, just go straight to Doc, make a trip out of it, have some fun. If Doc is to far away, call him and get a reference, he trains TTS tuners for the Mastertune company, if there is a good one in your area, Doc will point you to him. At least call him and talk about what you should do.
Hope that helps
Here is the link to Docs web site: http://www.docsperformancetuning.com/
Doc's Performance Tuning
352-404-6999 317 E Washington St. unit AMinneola, Florida 34715
Last edited by jjnoble; Feb 12, 2011 at 12:51 PM.
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