One more PC III question
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,090
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From: Murfreesboro , TN
RE: One more PC III question
ORIGINAL: Tech2
The dealer may sell the PCIII. Mine sells and installs them, and encourages the buyer to have the bike run on their dyno. The total cost from my dealer is around $600 for the installation of the PCIII and dyno tune (I didn't get either). From what I have read here, the dyno tune is recommended by many of the members, but not strictly necessary.
The dealer may sell the PCIII. Mine sells and installs them, and encourages the buyer to have the bike run on their dyno. The total cost from my dealer is around $600 for the installation of the PCIII and dyno tune (I didn't get either). From what I have read here, the dyno tune is recommended by many of the members, but not strictly necessary.
Dsanchez, that could very well be, as each bike is different, so the flat maps for each configuration might not be 100% matching. The question you have to ask yourself at that point is, does it really matter to you? To me it didn't at the time. I might get it dyno'd one day, but not for the equivalent of a Stage 1. If/when I bump it up to 95", then I would be dyno'ing it.
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RE: One more PC III question
To start with on a new bike leave it stock until you get a few miles on it. It's a new engine so it needs some break in miles before you start changing things. If you have any problems it just gives the dealer a way to get out of fixing it.
Look on-line for your parts. You'll save a lot of money. The air cleaner and the pipes both are an easy install. The Power Commander is a Plug and Play deal. Unplug the cable to the ECM plug in the Power Commander you're ready to go.
Of the two the SERT is a better deal than the Power Commander. You can do much more with the SERT. I've used both. The SERT manual tells you how to tune the bike. If you don't want to do it that way, a dyno tune is the best route. Trying to tune either without a way to monitor the Fuel Air Ratio is just a crap shoot. You may or may not get it right. The same holds true with a canned MAP from Power Commander or any where else. Each bike is different. At least with the SERT you'll have a way to look at the knock sensors which will tell you if the ECM is retarding the timing do to detonation caused by a lean AFR or timing problem.
Dyno Jet who makes the Power Commander sells Dynos. That's the whole thing behind the Power Commander. They want to sell you one so you'll take it to one of thier tuning centers and pay someone to tune it. They make money on both ends. With a dyno tune it's only as good as the guy doing it. If he doesn't take the time and effort to do it right you just wasted your money. Be sure and ask around to find someone who knows what the are doing. Anyone can buy a dyno and do tunes.
Have fun.
Look on-line for your parts. You'll save a lot of money. The air cleaner and the pipes both are an easy install. The Power Commander is a Plug and Play deal. Unplug the cable to the ECM plug in the Power Commander you're ready to go.
Of the two the SERT is a better deal than the Power Commander. You can do much more with the SERT. I've used both. The SERT manual tells you how to tune the bike. If you don't want to do it that way, a dyno tune is the best route. Trying to tune either without a way to monitor the Fuel Air Ratio is just a crap shoot. You may or may not get it right. The same holds true with a canned MAP from Power Commander or any where else. Each bike is different. At least with the SERT you'll have a way to look at the knock sensors which will tell you if the ECM is retarding the timing do to detonation caused by a lean AFR or timing problem.
Dyno Jet who makes the Power Commander sells Dynos. That's the whole thing behind the Power Commander. They want to sell you one so you'll take it to one of thier tuning centers and pay someone to tune it. They make money on both ends. With a dyno tune it's only as good as the guy doing it. If he doesn't take the time and effort to do it right you just wasted your money. Be sure and ask around to find someone who knows what the are doing. Anyone can buy a dyno and do tunes.
Have fun.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,094
Likes: 5
From: SE Wisconsin
RE: One more PC III question
Nice post Fatdave. But I desagree, Power Commander's maps may not be perfect but Jamie's maps seem to be spot on. He brings new bikes in and dyno's them, that is how he get's the maps. The PCIII will do everything the average guy will want it to.
On my stock 07 Streetglide it took just a few minutes to install. It cooled the bike down so that my pipes have not turned blue and added a big performance increase for under $300.
Don't forget by accepting the serts software license you ARE voiding your warranty, the PCIII you can just unplug and it's gone. Also the sert "marries" itself to your bike.
On my stock 07 Streetglide it took just a few minutes to install. It cooled the bike down so that my pipes have not turned blue and added a big performance increase for under $300.
Don't forget by accepting the serts software license you ARE voiding your warranty, the PCIII you can just unplug and it's gone. Also the sert "marries" itself to your bike.
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 469
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From: Motown
RE: One more PC III question
ORIGINAL: Cryptoboy
OUCH!!! $600 for a PCIII install and dyno? That seems a little steep, when the install portion takes make 15 minutes!
Dsanchez, that could very well be, as each bike is different, so the flat maps for each configuration might not be 100% matching. The question you have to ask yourself at that point is, does it really matter to you? To me it didn't at the time. I might get it dyno'd one day, but not for the equivalent of a Stage 1. If/when I bump it up to 95", then I would be dyno'ing it.
ORIGINAL: Tech2
The dealer may sell the PCIII. Mine sells and installs them, and encourages the buyer to have the bike run on their dyno. The total cost from my dealer is around $600 for the installation of the PCIII and dyno tune (I didn't get either). From what I have read here, the dyno tune is recommended by many of the members, but not strictly necessary.
The dealer may sell the PCIII. Mine sells and installs them, and encourages the buyer to have the bike run on their dyno. The total cost from my dealer is around $600 for the installation of the PCIII and dyno tune (I didn't get either). From what I have read here, the dyno tune is recommended by many of the members, but not strictly necessary.
Dsanchez, that could very well be, as each bike is different, so the flat maps for each configuration might not be 100% matching. The question you have to ask yourself at that point is, does it really matter to you? To me it didn't at the time. I might get it dyno'd one day, but not for the equivalent of a Stage 1. If/when I bump it up to 95", then I would be dyno'ing it.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,090
Likes: 3,882
From: Murfreesboro , TN
RE: One more PC III question
ORIGINAL: Tech2
That includes the price of the PCIII hardware, installation, and dyno run. You figure if they are charging retail for the PCIII, and at least 3-4 hours of labor, it adds up to a bad deal. I know it can be done cheaper, which is why I opted out. I went with slip-on mufflers, SE air cleaner, and the HD download. Did the work myself and ended up spending right around $600. I do get some decel popping, which is why I may still get a PCIII from fuelmoto.
That includes the price of the PCIII hardware, installation, and dyno run. You figure if they are charging retail for the PCIII, and at least 3-4 hours of labor, it adds up to a bad deal. I know it can be done cheaper, which is why I opted out. I went with slip-on mufflers, SE air cleaner, and the HD download. Did the work myself and ended up spending right around $600. I do get some decel popping, which is why I may still get a PCIII from fuelmoto.
I did about the same thing. When I bought the bike it had the Stage 1 kit installed (Download, AC, slipons). About a year later I put on the Thunderheader pipes/shields and the PCIII myself. Got the pipes from a member on here for a good price, and got my PCIII from eastern performance for about $100 less. Probably about $700 for the two pieces total. I get an occasional pop, but usually only when the weather is really hot.
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RE: One more PC III question
Akitakoi
I'm not bashing Power Commander or selling the SERT either one. This is what I've found using both. With all the different pipes, aircleaners and everything else on the market it would be hard to come up with a MAP for every combination. Add in the fact that every Dyno, every probe used to monitor the AFR and every bike are different it seems hard to do. How long does it take to develop a Map? Would it be cost effective for a business to develop all the MAPs and then give them away with the purchase of a Power Commander? Chances are you got something close to the setup your using and it works OK. But if you think you got a MAP developed just for your bike or combination of parts I'm not too sure about that. Maybe you did. Don't get me wrong the Power Commander works just fine and yes the SERT locks itself to the ECM but it also allows you to look at what the engine is doing. Like knock sensors, engine temp, Intake air temp. Idle Air control and the list goes on. Yes it cost more than the Power Commander but it's also a very well developed tuning system designed just for the Twin Cam engine and EFI system.
Ride Safe and have fun.
I'm not bashing Power Commander or selling the SERT either one. This is what I've found using both. With all the different pipes, aircleaners and everything else on the market it would be hard to come up with a MAP for every combination. Add in the fact that every Dyno, every probe used to monitor the AFR and every bike are different it seems hard to do. How long does it take to develop a Map? Would it be cost effective for a business to develop all the MAPs and then give them away with the purchase of a Power Commander? Chances are you got something close to the setup your using and it works OK. But if you think you got a MAP developed just for your bike or combination of parts I'm not too sure about that. Maybe you did. Don't get me wrong the Power Commander works just fine and yes the SERT locks itself to the ECM but it also allows you to look at what the engine is doing. Like knock sensors, engine temp, Intake air temp. Idle Air control and the list goes on. Yes it cost more than the Power Commander but it's also a very well developed tuning system designed just for the Twin Cam engine and EFI system.
Ride Safe and have fun.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,094
Likes: 5
From: SE Wisconsin
RE: One more PC III question
Fatdave,
Nice post.
I'm not selling or promoting PCIII's either, just wanted to add my 2 cents. Well maybe promoting a little only because it really helped my bike.
You make some good points. Since it does not stay on the bike how does the sert record stuff like engine knock?
Nice post.
I'm not selling or promoting PCIII's either, just wanted to add my 2 cents. Well maybe promoting a little only because it really helped my bike.
You make some good points. Since it does not stay on the bike how does the sert record stuff like engine knock?
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