True Duals
Tourer
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
From: Tulsa, OK
A stage 1 download is a very simple upgrade with no tuning ability.. It just is what it is.
My 88" fatboy had a stage 1 a/c, stage 1 download, and I changed the pipes on it several times.
Trust me when I say there was a very noticeable, not dramatic, but noticeable loss of torque when I put on a set of V&H true duals. I put on V&H sideshots and V&H pro pipe and the bike felt noticeably stronger. No dyno required.
However...
If I had the SERT, a PC, or some similar tuner where I could have had the bike tuned properly with the true duals, I feel like the difference would have been much more insignifigant.
Apples to apples.. stock head pipe vs. only true duals, you will most likely feel a loss in torque but nothing too dramatic.
true duals vs. a good 2-1 on a stock motor, you will feel a more noticeable loss in torque.
Stock headpipe on completely stock bike vs. true duals with a stage 1 A/C and a tuner, you will definitely not feel any loss of torque.
Throw a good 2-1 on that same bike with the stage 1 A/C and a tuner, you will feel more torque than with the true duals.
Anyways.. that's my .02 cents.
slow night at work..
My 88" fatboy had a stage 1 a/c, stage 1 download, and I changed the pipes on it several times.
Trust me when I say there was a very noticeable, not dramatic, but noticeable loss of torque when I put on a set of V&H true duals. I put on V&H sideshots and V&H pro pipe and the bike felt noticeably stronger. No dyno required.
However...
If I had the SERT, a PC, or some similar tuner where I could have had the bike tuned properly with the true duals, I feel like the difference would have been much more insignifigant.
Apples to apples.. stock head pipe vs. only true duals, you will most likely feel a loss in torque but nothing too dramatic.
true duals vs. a good 2-1 on a stock motor, you will feel a more noticeable loss in torque.
Stock headpipe on completely stock bike vs. true duals with a stage 1 A/C and a tuner, you will definitely not feel any loss of torque.
Throw a good 2-1 on that same bike with the stage 1 A/C and a tuner, you will feel more torque than with the true duals.
Anyways.. that's my .02 cents.
slow night at work..
Tourer
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
From: Tulsa, OK
Me personally, I noticed the bike struggling a little more under say 2500-2800 or so. Seemed like it took longer to get to 3K on the tach from an off idle roll on.. but once the bike hit the 3K mark there was little to no difference in how quick the RPM's climbed to redline.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,908
Likes: 2
From: Southeast Wisconsin
Going from stock TC88 to a TC88 with Stage I and true duals I didn't lose low end. It's nice losing the heat on the right side and the sound is quite nice. Oh, and they look good too.
no, we're not. The OP has a "completely stock" bike, and is considering putting on true duals, and the usual chorus of "you'll lose low end torque" is the immediate response.
If you're saying that true duals will have a later torque band than some 2-1 systems, then that's what you need to say, not "yup, loss of torque".
If you're saying that true duals will have a later torque band than some 2-1 systems, then that's what you need to say, not "yup, loss of torque".
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,523
Likes: 3
From: Illinois
no, we're not. The OP has a "completely stock" bike, and is considering putting on true duals, and the usual chorus of "you'll lose low end torque" is the immediate response.
If you're saying that true duals will have a later torque band than some 2-1 systems, then that's what you need to say, not "yup, loss of torque".
If you're saying that true duals will have a later torque band than some 2-1 systems, then that's what you need to say, not "yup, loss of torque".
I've been running true duals on my bikes since the mid 60s, and wouldn't have it any other way. I almost put a fatcat on my bike this year. One had dropped into my lap for next to nothing earlier this summer, but I just couldn't bring myself do it, so I sold it to a friend. He's happy with it, and I'm happy for him. I'm not getting rid of my Rineharts.
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Road Captain
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 505
Likes: 2
My experience of where the dip is shows that it was below 2500 rpm - around 2300 (and which basically can be made extinct with a tune anyway). This is pretty close to the "lugging" zone. Anyone who "loves torque" and rides their bike at 2300 isn't getting as much torque as they would at 3500 (where a stock Harley is maxing out) so I'm not sure what they're really looking for. Maybe they actually "dislike downshifts". I tend to ride through the 2500 point to around no lower than 3500 and then shift - obviously higher if I want to get a move on. So even if I had a dip I wouldn't be in it. And I'd like to point out that at 3000 rpm I'm making 100 lbs with TD's and a fairly mild basic bore and cams set up and I realise that a 2-1 would get me a few more lbs but it's no slouch believe me.
Last edited by fxdxrider; Aug 5, 2011 at 02:04 PM.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,744
Likes: 402
From: Phoenix '53, '88, '09 Big Twins
my response which you quoted above was for a rider who mistakenly may have compared "stock" to "stage 1", with his "stage 1" using TD's.
- Just uncorking the intake and mufflers will add 7 to 10 HP which is inline with what he saw.
--- To anyone ( most of us) who are happy with your pipes, for whatever reasons, fine.
However, some systems have drawbacks which the marketing department doesn't advertise.
Make the buyer aware- just so he knows.
Mike